Interview with Susan Wagner-Hartney, August 9, 2018

Dublin Core

Title

Interview with Susan Wagner-Hartney, August 9, 2018

Subject

Bands (Music)
Allentown Band

Description

Susan Wagner-Hartney discusses her early life with music, K-12 education, playing the piano and flute, music involvement and
joining the Allentown Band. Susan also spoke about the demographics of Band members over time and the youth outreach programs.

Date

2018-08-09

Format

video

Identifier

AB-05

Oral History Item Type Metadata

Interviewer

Ranieri, Kate
Falciani Maldonado, Susan

Interviewee

Wagner-Hartney, Susan

Duration

25:00

OHMS Object Text

5.4 August 9, 2018 Interview with Susan Wagner-Hartney, August 9, 2018 AB-05 00:25:00 Allentown Band Allentown Band Oral History Collection Muhlenberg College: Trexler Library Oral History Repository This oral history recording was supported by a grant from the Lehigh Valley Engaged Humanities Consortium (LVEHC). Bands (Music) Allentown Band flute piccolo youth outreach music education Side-by-Side concerts European tours Wagner-Hartney, Susan Ranieri, Kate Falciani Maldonado, Susan video/mpeg WagnerHartneySusan_20180809_video.mpeg 1:|24(5)|36(9)|47(2)|56(1)|66(12)|78(1)|88(2)|96(10)|109(7)|117(11)|126(5)|134(8)|152(2)|171(15)|184(7)|199(14)|211(6)|223(5)|236(6)|247(5)|267(3)|281(2)|295(6)|311(4)|322(13) 0 YouTube video &lt ; iframe src=&quot ; https://www.youtube.com/embed/pwi_rerAyR8?rel=0&quot ; width=&quot ; 560&quot ; height=&quot ; 315&quot ; frameborder=&quot ; 0&quot ; &gt ; &lt ; /iframe&gt ; 0 Interview Introduction KATE RANIERI: Thank you for allowing us to interview you. My name is Kate Ranieri, we’re here in Allentown at Wenner Hall in the process of interviewing band members, and I have, so, your last name? SUSAN WAGNER-HARTNEY: My name is Susan Wagner-Hartney. KR: Hartney. And if you could just give us your date of birth. 45 Early interests in music / first instrument KR: So, I have a few questions to ask you, beginning with -- let’s go back. Remember when you were five, or whatever year it was, when you started feeling that you wanted to play a musical instrument. What was it that inspired you to play? Tell me about your growing up years playing, then getting into the band, move into the band that way. SWH: I grew up on a farm Bethlehem Township, Northampton County, and my parents had friends who owned a piano, and I was absolutely fascinated with this thing. I didn’t know what it was as my family is not musical, and you go and you push down on a white key and you push down on a black key, you could get all different kinds of sounds. clarinet ; flute ; piano 144 First meeting with Ron Demkee My first acquaintance with Ron Demkee was when I started at Freedom High School, he was the band director there. I should say, instrumental music director, that’s a little bit more accurate. And I played in band and orchestra, wind ensemble, I did some pit work for various shows, had a wonderful, wonderful experience there. 263 Joining the Allentown Band Moved back to the Lehigh Valley, late 1980s, and was playing, doing some church work. I am a church musician, do organ and choir directing and hand-bell ringing and all that kind of good material that goes along with church music. And, lo and behold, one evening, the phone rings and it’s Ron Demkee. Allentown Band ; Lehigh Valley 316 Changes and growth in the Allentown Band over time KR: I love that story. I love it. (laughs) So, tell me about the band. What kind of things did you notice about the band in the period when you first joined to where it is now? SWH: Well, nothing remained stagnant, and I think that’s a very good thing. There are people who have been with the band forever, like Ezra, although we tease him, he hasn’t been with them since 1828, and some very talented young people who have come into the ranks, and that’s very exciting to see, to observe their enthusiasm for the material that’s played. 369 Diverse programming The repertoire that we do here is just incredible, and it’s challenging. I played a lot of it prior to coming to the band, but we have pieces that are commissioned for us, like Johan de Meij and Steve Reisteter, our principal clarinetist, is a wonderful composer and does some amazing things in both his original compositions and in arranging. So, that’s very exciting to be part of that new music. And, also, another exciting thing, again, is to play some of the Sousa marches. Meij, Johan de, 1953- ; Sousa Tradition ; Sousa, John Philip, 1854-1932 526 The future of the Allentown Band KR: So, where do you think the band’s going in the future? If you were to kind of, say, this is what I see in the future? SWH: Well, my crystal ball has been in the shop for many years and hasn’t been returned, but I’ll give you my best judgment of that. It’s exciting to see new people come in, younger people. Not to say that people of my age and older -- we still have skills that are still very, very carefully honed, and, hopefully, people take their music folders home and practice because it’s not the kind of group that you can come in and sit down and read and say, “OK, I’m done,” you know, one rehearsal a week. 591 Youth outreach programs I see exciting times ahead, particularly with student outreach that we’ve done with the side by side concerts, which are typically in May. Selected high school students are suggested by their band directors to come and play with us. And there’s a conductor, a guest conductor of fame who appears in 2018, it was a woman who had conducted the United States Army Band. music education ; Side-by-Side concert ; tuba ; United States Army Band ; youth concerts ; youth outreach 749 Side-by-Side concerts SWH: Some of the students come in and they’re a little hesitant, and I have the piccolo seat in the band. Piccolo is a color instrument. It’s also a dangerous little instrument. It’s not the easiest thing in the world to play. And I usually have a sweet young thing next to me with, you know, the big eyes, and just, like, “Honey, just relax and play. Just play. It will be all right, I promise you. And if we have a problem, we’ll work it out.” piccolo ; Side-by-Side concert ; youth concerts ; youth outreach 829 Changing Band demographics over time KR: Do either one of you have any...? SFM: No, I... if you have any. It’s when you look at the makeup of your band itself. Have you noticed how it’s changed, say, in the last 50 years? SWH: I can’t respond to 50 years. I could respond to the time I know. When you say makeup, give me a little bit more... KR: In terms of male, female, white, Caucasian. SWH: Well, at one time, it was all male. And I think that changed in the mid ‘70s. I don’t have an exact date. We have one player who was African American, actually we have two players who are African American, excuse me. A trumpet player and a euphonium player. euphonium ; trumpet 968 European tours SWH: Yes, we’ve done some European tours. I have been on three, and it’s just been marvelous to see the reaction of people in other countries. I have a dear friend who says you’re an expert if you travel 50 miles from home and carry a clipboard, so you’re not a prophet in your own backyard, and I’m amazed -- this is such a marvelous cultural institution that some people don’t know about it. European tours ; Goldman, Edwin Franko, 1878-1956 998 History and culture of community bands in Allentown this is such a marvelous cultural institution that some people don’t know about it. Many people are not aware that there are four community bands in Allentown. That’s unheard of. And when you think of, like, the Goldman Band in New York, that is no more. community bands ; Edwin Franko Goldman Band ; European tours ; Goldman, Edwin Franko, 1878-1956 1043 Impact of the Allentown Band in the states and overseas KR: When you’re on your European tour, do you find music is the language, the lingua franca, if you will, that everyone understands the music, whether it’s -- because you’re not singing, necessarily. SWH: We’ve always attracted people who are interested. I remember playing in France, and that was in 2008, I think, we did some informal concerts there, and people were just fascinated. They’d walk by and then they’d stop. Carnegie Hall (New York, N.Y.) ; European tours ; France ; Sousa, John Philip, 1854-1932 ; West Park ; Winds Festival 1278 The Allentown Band's relationship to other local community bands SFM: Is there much crossover between the four community bands? Are there many people who play in more than one? SWH: Not to my knowledge. There is a festival of bands that’s held every year. It used to be at the field house at Muhlenberg, it’d been there for years and years and years and years and years. And the funds that are raised there goes to help support organizations for people who are developmentally disabled. community bands 1354 Appreciating the rich history of the Allentown Band KR: Also the fact that you have your own culture here. Not that it couldn’t be done, but you have a long, long history here. A very rich history. SWH: The history is just amazing. As I mentioned before, just what’s in this building alone, just the photographs in our kind of like our waiting area, there are headshots from 1911, little oval headshots, and I’m absolutely fascinated with that collage. MovingImage Susan Wagner-Hartney discusses her early life with music, K-12 education, playing the piano and flute, music involvement and joining the Allentown Band. Susan also spoke about the demographics of Band members over time and the youth outreach programs. KATE RANIERI: Thank you for allowing us to interview you. My name is Kate Ranieri, we&#039 ; re here in Allentown at Wenner Hall in the process of interviewing band members, and I have, so, your last name? SUSAN WAGNER-HARTNEY: My name is Susan Wagner-Hartney. KR: Hartney. And if you could just give us your date of birth. SWH: July first. KR: That&#039 ; s good. Thank you very much. (laughs) I assume that we have your permission to videotape you? SWH: Yes. KR: We will share this with you on a DVD as well if you&#039 ; d like. SWH: Excellent, thank you. KR: So, I have a few questions to ask you, beginning with -- let&#039 ; s go back. Remember when you were five, or whatever year it was, when you started feeling that you wanted to play a musical instrument. What was it that inspired you to play? Tell me about your growing up years playing, then getting into the band, move into the band that way. SWH: I grew up on a farm Bethlehem Township, Northampton County, and my parents had friends who owned a piano, and I was absolutely fascinated with this thing. I didn&#039 ; t know what it was as my family is not musical, and you go and you push down on a white key and you push down on a black key, you could get all different kinds of sounds. I thought this was great. So, when I was six years old, my parents bought a used piano, which I have to this day. It was built somewhere between 1900 and 1904, and it&#039 ; s what they would call a Concert Upright or a Grand Upright, and it&#039 ; s a big piece of mahogany furniture. Still plays beautifully. I&#039 ; m blessed to have a wonderful piano technician. And I started piano lessons when I was six and just took to it, loved every minute of it. When I became a little bit older, about fourth grade or so, I decided I wanted to play a wind instrument so I could play in a band. Broke my mother&#039 ; s heart that I didn&#039 ; t want to play the violin, but I didn&#039 ; t want any part of that. And I started out on clarinet and then transitioned to flute, and the flute and I got along much better than clarinet and I did. So I played all through school. My first acquaintance with Ron Demkee was when I started at Freedom High School, he was the band director there. I should say, instrumental music director, that&#039 ; s a little bit more accurate. And I played in band and orchestra, wind ensemble, I did some pit work for various shows, had a wonderful, wonderful experience there. Trips to the Orange Bowl in Miami, Florida for their big parade, the Niagara Blossom Festival, Niagara Falls, Ontario. We did some parades in Washington, DC, and in local events as well. My skills were good enough for me to go to district and regional band festivals, and I decided that I wanted to study music in college, so Ron was extremely helpful. I was accepted at West Chester University, then West Chester State College. Had a terrific experience there. Got a conservatory education at a state school price. And, although my degree is in music education, sadly I didn&#039 ; t teach in a public school setting simply because, at that time, the jobs were not available where I was living. But I always taught privately and maintained my skills. I&#039 ; m playing with different organizations, trios, quintets, et cetera. I moved from the Philadelphia area to northeastern Pennsylvania. I worked at Marywood University for almost 10 years. I obtained my master&#039 ; s degree in musicology from there, and also taught flute part time, both to credit and non-credit students, and, that, again, was a wonderful, wonderful experience, something that I&#039 ; m very grateful to this day that I had. Moved back to the Lehigh Valley, late 1980s, and was playing, doing some church work. I am a church musician, do organ and choir directing and hand-bell ringing and all that kind of good material that goes along with church music. And, lo and behold, one evening, the phone rings and it&#039 ; s Ron Demkee. Hadn&#039 ; t heard from him in a very long time, and he wanted to know if I&#039 ; d be interested in playing with the Allentown Band. He said, &quot ; Come to a rehearsal, see how you like it.&quot ; So, came to a rehearsal in this very room, and I fell in love and have been to this very day. KR: I love that story. I love it. (laughs) So, tell me about the band. What kind of things did you notice about the band in the period when you first joined to where it is now? SWH: Well, nothing remained stagnant, and I think that&#039 ; s a very good thing. There are people who have been with the band forever, like Ezra, although we tease him, he hasn&#039 ; t been with them since 1828, and some very talented young people who have come into the ranks, and that&#039 ; s very exciting to see, to observe their enthusiasm for the material that&#039 ; s played. Sadly, I think there is a misconception about band music, that you only perform marching in the street, you only play marches. The repertoire that we do here is just incredible, and it&#039 ; s challenging. I played a lot of it prior to coming to the band, but we have pieces that are commissioned for us, like Johan de Meij and Steve Reisteter, our principal clarinetist, is a wonderful composer and does some amazing things in both his original compositions and in arranging. So, that&#039 ; s very exciting to be part of that new music. And, also, another exciting thing, again, is to play some of the Sousa marches. There are so many of them, and, naturally, we don&#039 ; t always get to play all of them. There&#039 ; s like, &quot ; Oh, yes.&quot ; One of my favorites is Nobles of the Mystic Shrine simply because it has a flute trio that most people don&#039 ; t hear, but it&#039 ; s scored like that. It&#039 ; s like, yeah, we really need to play this one again. And each march has a story. And I think Ron, in programming our concerts, keeps very much in mind the Sousa tradition where John Philip Sousa would do, perhaps, an orchestral transcription of an overture followed up by a march, and a soloist, either vocal or instrumental, or, perhaps, sometimes, both, but a lovely mix of material like that. We do concerts occasionally that are specifically, like, on Broadway, specifically patriotic at those times of the year when that&#039 ; s appropriate. Our holiday concerts. There&#039 ; s a concert that we do in early December that is both patriotic, honoring those people who have served in the military, it&#039 ; s usually close to Pearl Harbor day, and festive as well with the holiday music, and that one I always find very meaningful. I knew one of the men who was honored several years ago and just found that to be overwhelming, and, glancing at my comrades in arms, so to speak, on the stage, you could see that a lot of them were very moved as well. KR: I&#039 ; ve been at one of the concerts, the one where they have what branch of the service, &#039 ; cause I was in the Air Force. You forget about that sometimes. It&#039 ; s beautiful. So, where do you think the band&#039 ; s going in the future? If you were to kind of, say, this is what I see in the future? SWH: Well, my crystal ball has been in the shop for many years and hasn&#039 ; t been returned, but I&#039 ; ll give you my best judgment of that. It&#039 ; s exciting to see new people come in, younger people. Not to say that people of my age and older -- we still have skills that are still very, very carefully honed, and, hopefully, people take their music folders home and practice because it&#039 ; s not the kind of group that you can come in and sit down and read and say, &quot ; OK, I&#039 ; m done,&quot ; you know, one rehearsal a week. There are areas that require special attention, and I usually take my folder home with me so I have time to efficiently practice. I see exciting times ahead, particularly with student outreach that we&#039 ; ve done with the side by side concerts, which are typically in May. Selected high school students are suggested by their band directors to come and play with us. And there&#039 ; s a conductor, a guest conductor of fame who appears in 2018, it was a woman who had conducted the United States Army Band. I think she was at West Point, I don&#039 ; t have all the details. But she was just marvelous and worked very, very well with students. And Carol Jantsch, who is the tuba player with the Philadelphia Orchestra, came and played, and, although she played only with the Allentown Band segment, it was fascinating to watch the students. I could see some of them in the audience from where I was sitting and they were just stunned that, you know, a tuba could make these incredibly beautiful sounds, you know, it&#039 ; s just not on the first and second beats of the measure, and just sort of holding the beat in place. That type of exposure, and, also, with the young people&#039 ; s concerts that we do, typically in November, where school students are brought in to hear the band, definitely it makes an impression on these young people, and hopefully encourages them to keep with their musical studies, not necessarily as a vocation, but as an avocation. Within the band, there are people who are from all different occupations, from doctors, to dentists, we&#039 ; ve had attorneys, labor workers, school music teachers, performance folks, military band people, so it&#039 ; s a wide, wide range of occupation, but the one love is still getting together and making music, and it doesn&#039 ; t get much better. KR: Not at all. I listened to Deb. Thank you for your answer. Talking about the Education Outreach Program, it&#039 ; s just, well, we&#039 ; re definitely signing up SUSAN FALCIANI MALDONADO: We want to go. SWH: It&#039 ; s so exciting. KR: I bet. I can only imagine. SWH: Some of the students come in and they&#039 ; re a little hesitant, and I have the piccolo seat in the band. Piccolo is a color instrument. It&#039 ; s also a dangerous little instrument. It&#039 ; s not the easiest thing in the world to play. And I usually have a sweet young thing next to me with, you know, the big eyes, and just, like, &quot ; Honey, just relax and play. Just play. It will be all right, I promise you. And if we have a problem, we&#039 ; ll work it out.&quot ; Never had had to work anything out. Though, you know, it&#039 ; s a matter of giving them confidence to go ahead. &quot ; We&#039 ; re not throwing you into the deep end of the pool feet first, not knowing how to swim. We&#039 ; re here for you. We&#039 ; ll encourage you. But we want you to take that first step.&quot ; KR: It&#039 ; s an amazing program. SWH: It&#039 ; s wonderful. I look forward to that every year. KR: You can also look forward to seeing it continue. Go Allentown Band. SWH: (laughs) KR: Do either one of you have any...? SFM: No, I... if you have any. It&#039 ; s when you look at the makeup of your band itself. Have you noticed how it&#039 ; s changed, say, in the last 50 years? SWH: I can&#039 ; t respond to 50 years. I could respond to the time I know. When you say makeup, give me a little bit more... KR: In terms of male, female, white, Caucasian. SWH: Well, at one time, it was all male. And I think that changed in the mid &#039 ; 70s. I don&#039 ; t have an exact date. We have one player who was African American, actually we have two players who are African American, excuse me. A trumpet player and a euphonium player. And the euphonium player is particularly interesting, and I know him better because I&#039 ; ve known him longer, he came from the Salvation Army Band tradition of brass band, and he&#039 ; s shared a lot of information about that tradition with me, and his playing is exquisite, and it&#039 ; s part of that tradition. Male, female -- since women came into the band in the mid &#039 ; 70s, I&#039 ; m going to say we probably have maybe a 50/50 demographic. That&#039 ; s really hard for me to judge because I don&#039 ; t think in those terms, I think, &quot ; OK. Oh, yeah. OK. So-and-so&#039 ; s coming in, I got to match that pitch,&quot ; or &quot ; Here&#039 ; s my cue for this entrance.&quot ; KR: That&#039 ; s what you&#039 ; re doing, isn&#039 ; t it? Playing music. SWH: Playing music. KR: You&#039 ; re not looking at demographics. SWH: No, you know, we&#039 ; ve had some heated discussions politically, but usually within a framework of respect. We&#039 ; ve got all different folks here from different walks of life, different religions, different opinions, but our job here is to make music and to outreach to the community. You know, it&#039 ; s sort of a selfish profession because I play for me, but I also play as a communication device. KR: It&#039 ; s also a group. The camaraderie. SWH: Yes, we&#039 ; ve done some European tours. I have been on three, and it&#039 ; s just been marvelous to see the reaction of people in other countries. I have a dear friend who says you&#039 ; re an expert if you travel 50 miles from home and carry a clipboard, so you&#039 ; re not a prophet in your own backyard, and I&#039 ; m amazed -- this is such a marvelous cultural institution that some people don&#039 ; t know about it. Many people are not aware that there are four community bands in Allentown. That&#039 ; s unheard of. And when you think of, like, the Goldman Band in New York, that is no more. And it&#039 ; s tragic. You know, Edwin Franko Goldman wrote so much music, and that organization has ceased to exist. And that&#039 ; s New York City. Here, we&#039 ; ve got four concert bands in the city, though, you know, it&#039 ; s just a remarkable thing to me that the city can sustain that type of interest. And it&#039 ; s come directly from the players and from the conductors. KR: When you&#039 ; re on your European tour, do you find music is the language, the lingua franca, if you will, that everyone understands the music, whether it&#039 ; s -- because you&#039 ; re not singing, necessarily. SWH: We&#039 ; ve always attracted people who are interested. I remember playing in France, and that was in 2008, I think, we did some informal concerts there, and people were just fascinated. They&#039 ; d walk by and then they&#039 ; d stop. And this was part of a Winds Festival on the French Riviera, and other bands would come through and they&#039 ; d come and listen. We would do the same if we happen to fall upon them at any given time. The formal concert was just remarkable, and people commented on our uniforms, wanted to know if we were in the military. We said, &quot ; No, it&#039 ; s a military style coat. It&#039 ; s based upon the United States Navy, and that&#039 ; s what Sousa did. But, no, we are not in the military.&quot ; KR: I&#039 ; m sure it must have been a marvelous experience. SWH: The trips were just fabulous. The enthusiasm of our audiences was amazing. And it&#039 ; s something I&#039 ; ll always have. And we got to share what we do with people in other countries. KR: How would you compare audiences here, the states that you&#039 ; ve been to, the concerts, compared to Europe? SWH: As you said, it&#039 ; s like the lingua franca. There&#039 ; s almost always something that will touch someone, and you don&#039 ; t necessarily know what it will be. One of my favorite pieces that we do is Wagner&#039 ; s &quot ; Elsa&#039 ; s Procession to the Cathedral,&quot ; and it&#039 ; s from Lohengrin. I have a long time before I make my entrance. I can just sit there and listen. And we played that at Carnegie Hall, and I&#039 ; m thinking, &quot ; This is the first selection we&#039 ; re playing. I am sitting on stage in Carnegie Hall.&quot ; I was almost in tears, and I thought, &quot ; You better pull it together, girlfriend, you&#039 ; ve got an entrance to make.&quot ; And just to hear that silence before the applause and know that you&#039 ; ve touched somebody is a wonderful, wonderful feeling. KR: Or a reward. SWH: It is a reward. And, sometimes, depending on the site, we&#039 ; re close enough to see faces, and particularly like at West Park, which isn&#039 ; t a far more informal venue than a concert hall would be, sometimes we&#039 ; ll have children marching back and forth, they&#039 ; re dancing. That&#039 ; s just so gratifying to know we&#039 ; re touching them in that kind of way, where they feel they want to have movement. And we have other people who sit, you know, and they&#039 ; re very thoughtful and giving it an indoor concert venue setting, outdoor. I really do enjoy seeing that. KR: It&#039 ; s lovely. SWH: It is. KR: Thank you very much. SWH: You&#039 ; re welcome. KR: You&#039 ; ve given us a window into other things that no one else has told us about their concerts, which is lovely, it really is. It&#039 ; s nice to hear how music works with people, just... SFM: Is there much crossover between the four community bands? Are there many people who play in more than one? SWH: Not to my knowledge. There is a festival of bands that&#039 ; s held every year. It used to be at the field house at Muhlenberg, it&#039 ; d been there for years and years and years and years and years. And the funds that are raised there goes to help support organizations for people who are developmentally disabled. And the last several years, I believe, it has taken place in Northampton at their community center. So the four bands get together to play there. But as far as people crossing over, sometimes, if a substitute is needed in a given section, you know, that type of activity takes place. But I think it would be very challenging to play in all four and try to make concerts and do things like that. KR: Scheduling? SWH: Scheduling could be very, very difficult. KR: Also the fact that you have your own culture here. Not that it couldn&#039 ; t be done, but you have a long, long history here. A very rich history. SWH: The history is just amazing. As I mentioned before, just what&#039 ; s in this building alone, just the photographs in our kind of like our waiting area, there are headshots from 1911, little oval headshots, and I&#039 ; m absolutely fascinated with that collage. The people are in -- and it&#039 ; s all men, of course -- in the high collar uniforms that must have been terribly uncomfortable in which to play. But to know that we in the band now are part of that long standing tradition, 190 years, that&#039 ; s so unique, and it is 190 continuous years. It wasn&#039 ; t called the Allentown Band in 1828, but that tradition has gone through to this place at this time. KR: Definitely an institution. SWH: Yes, very much so. KR: Thank you so much. SWH: You&#039 ; re welcome. KR: This is exciting. Each interview just kind of peels another layer of the onion. (laughs) SWH: That&#039 ; s good. SWH: The Allentown Band had played at the Kennedy Center, I&#039 ; m going to say this was maybe eight, nine years ago, in that ballpark. And, as part of that trip, we got to go to the Marine Corps building where they house the music. The rehearsal areas and the library, it just, incredible holdings, just amazing. And we have a repository like that, not quite as great, but a repository of similar materials here. And I&#039 ; m just in awe of what the holdings are. Aside from the photographs that everybody sees, just, the music and the amount of music is incredible. END OF AUDIO FILE Copyright for this oral history recording is held by the interview subject. video This oral history is made available with a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International License (CC BY-NC 4.0). The public can access and share the interview for educational, research, and other noncommercial purposes as long as they identify the original source. 0

Interview Keyword

flute
piccolo
youth outreach
music education
Side-by-Side concerts
European tours

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Citation

“Interview with Susan Wagner-Hartney, August 9, 2018,” Muhlenberg College Oral History Repository, accessed October 5, 2022, https://trexlerworks.muhlenberg.edu/mc_oralhistory/items/show/40.