Major Nathan Kline, August 24, 2015

Major Nathan Kline, August 24, 2015

World War, 1939-1945

Muhlenberg College

Nathan Kline, a native of Allentown, attended Muhlenberg College before distinguishing himself, at the tender age of 17 as an Air Force bombardier/navigator flying missions in the European Theatre of Operations. In this interview, he recounts his enlistment; his experiences as a bombardier/navigator, including being shot down and losing comrades; his leisure time in France, and more.

2015-08-24

video

WWII_03

Kate Ranieri

Susan Falciani Maldonado

Jim Ranieri

Nathan Kline

Allentown, PA

00:37:28

5.4 August 24, 2015 Major Nathan Kline, August 24, 2015 WWII_03 00:37:28 WWII Muhlenberg Voices of World War II Muhlenberg College: Trexler Library Oral History Repository Courtesy Special Collections and Archives, Trexler Library, Muhlenberg College. World War, 1939-1945 Muhlenberg College World War II Army Air Forces European tours Lehigh Valley Military Affairs Council Nathan Kline Kate Raniero Susan Falciani Maldonado Jim Ranieri video/mp4 KlineNathan_20140804_video 1:|34(9)|59(4)|89(4)|117(7)|130(6)|170(7)|182(14)|194(10)|206(3)|220(2)|230(2)|256(3)|268(8)|281(12)|292(2)|306(1)|318(4)|331(2)|344(2)|360(16)|373(3)|382(4)|390(10)|404(2)|416(9)|424(15)|440(3)|451(2)|461(1)|473(13)|484(15) 0 YouTube video &lt ; iframe width=&quot ; 560&quot ; height=&quot ; 315&quot ; src=&quot ; https://www.youtube.com/embed/bPFxpttjGzA&quot ; title=&quot ; YouTube video player&quot ; frameborder=&quot ; 0&quot ; allow=&quot ; accelerometer ; autoplay=0 ; clipboard-write ; encrypted-media ; gyroscope ; picture-in-picture&quot ; allowfullscreen&gt ; &lt ; /iframe&gt ; 0 Interview Introduction KR: What I will do though is ask you a question or ask you to respond to some ideas that I put forth [clears throat]. And then I'm just gonna sit here and listen. I won't try and interfere, OK? And so what we'll end up talking about is we'll go back a little bit to the early years and in kind of a chronology, but--- NK: What is this for, by the way? KR: Oh, sorry, my bad. This is a project where we're looking at those who were at Muhlenberg at one time or another during, um, the V-12, and even some people up to, uh, Korean War and more, but mostly V-12 program like, so World War II, these are narratives about World War II. 259 Early desire to become a doctor / joining the Army Air Forces NK: Well, I my, desire, uh, was to become a research, go into research in cancer cause some peoples, part of my family had a problem with cancer and, that, I wanted to be a doctor. Uh, and of course, when the, uh, war broke out, I still wasn't affected that much. I was 17. Just 17. And, but then when it started to really get moving, uh, I wanted to, uh, join the fight. And that's when I left, uh, school and enlisted in the Air Force, well, the Army Air Force at that time. KR: So, you left high school or you left--? NK: Muhlenberg. I was on my first semester at Muhlenberg. Air Force ; Army Air Force 313 Early memories of Muhlenberg and Allentown KR: What was it like being at Muhlenberg that first semester? NK: It was, uh, it was great. I mean, I knew a lot of people being from Allentown and the faculty were very, very cooperative, very helpful. Uh, and don't forget, I lived in this area near Muhlenberg since I was a kid. So, I used to go over there and play [laugh] when I was a kid and, uh, I knew the grounds very well and I, uh, felt right at home. The only part that I didn't like, I had to come from home. I couldn't billet in the dorm there because I was right there and I would've enjoyed that, but that didn't happen. Allentown (Pa.) 433 Memories of life in Allentown during the Depression and early WWII KR: So, what was life like in Allentown, you know, like on Hamilton or 7th Street or--? NK: Well, let me say that it's my grandfather came to Allentown in 1892. He had a large hotel at tenth and Hamilton Street. And, uh, I spent some time working with the FBI as I showed you. And I found out that my first two years of life, I lived in the hotel, never knew that. But as to, uh, commercial business and so forth, when you look at what we have today, it's, it's changed a bit in the last year or so. But on a Saturday afternoon, you couldn't walk on the north side of Hamilton Street. This is during 1933-35 in the Depression. And on Thursday nights, were shopping nights, again it was very crowded. There was a lot of business. And of course, unfortunately, when the shopping centers coming in, a lot of those business moved out and that was the downfall of downtown Allentown until recent times, as you know, where it's going, they're doing a fantastic job bringing business back. Allentown (Pa.) ; Great Depression ; Pennsylvania Guard ; victory garden 604 Basic training at Miami Beach KR: So, you left after a few months, left Muhlenberg? NK: I left, came at Muhlenberg in September left in November, November 6th. KR: So where did you go from there? NK: Well, I went in to, uh, just outside a Harrisburg and, uh, was given a, a, uh, suit, a uniform that didn't fit, and a winter uniform, and we were shipped down to Miami Beach. Here, we have winter uniforms in the summer, well, it was warm, and, uh, going down to Miami Beach. It took us seven days to get down there in the train because it had to stop and troop trains and all that. basic training ; Gable, Clark, 1901-1960 ; McFadden-Deauville ; Miami Beach (Fla.) ; segregation ; Waycross (Ga.) 736 Shipping out to England on the Queen Mary KR: So, is that when you started flying? NK: Well, when I got to England, or by the way, the Queen Mary, we had no escort because it was very, very fast and we had 10 thousand troops on the, on the ship. And they billeted males, a PFC, Private, first-class, they'd billeted me down in the hole and the pumps going online and, uh, two meals, only two meals a day and I was kind of disgusted. So, I ate a box of, I brought a box of Hershey bars and ate the whole box and was constipated for a week. [laugh]. Then I got to Scotland and we, uh, were put on a train and they gave us, we, we were told was tea And I never drank tea with powdered milk in it, and I never drank tea with milk. But even worse, and I didn't understand a word of the, of the gals that were feeding [unclear] heavy Scottish accent. Queen Mary (Steamship) ; World War II 796 Started training for bombardiering, gunnery, and navigation NK: And we were sent down to Colchester, England, uh, and that's where I had my duty. I was very unhappy counting blankets [laugh] and, uh, supplying the troops. So, when they, the bombardiers, as I mentioned earlier, uh, were killed faster, wounded faster than they could be replaced, so they started a 90-day school for not only bombardiering, but navigation and gunnery. I was never, at this point, I was never even up in an airplane. Uh, so, I was determined to get in and pass the, uh, written exam. Uh, so I snuck into the, uh, area where they, uh, check you for your, help to meet the requirements of your eye and so forth. And I went into the night before and I memorized the eye chart. It was “NDHRCLEK” and that's how I got in to fly. Army Air Force ; Bombardiers ; Colchester (England) ; World War II 867 Flying first missions / being shot down / tour in Scotland NK: Since I flew with four different crews because they couldn't replace them fast enough, so that's how I, uh, when I started, you’re supposed to do, uh, uh, 30 missions and then it went up to 50 missions, and then 65 missions because they, they needed us to fly. Uh, and that was my adventure there. I was shot down twice in one week during the time of the Bulge. And, uh, I was, uh, sent over to Scotland for tour for 15 days. And the crew that I actually flew my last 12 missions with, uh, was shot down and killed. I would have been on that mission if I had been back a few days earlier, uh, and that's pretty much of my time. I met a lot of great people, civilians, and, uh, a lot of crew members I flew with, I say four different crews and, uh, everything went very well for me and it was amazing. Army Air Force ; Battle of the Bulge ; Scotland ; World War II 940 Flying on D-Day / getting hit by flack in the air NK: I didn't get nervous or anything because when the flack was bursting all around, I was too busy with navigation, except on D-Day. We were supposed to fly in at eight thousand feet and we flew in at four thousand because of the weather. And, uh, they, uh, they hadn't, instead of 88, which were big cannons, they had 40 millimeters because at that low temperature, low altitude, they couldn't use 88s. And these were tracers, so I could actually see between my legs, I could see the gunners sitting in there, shooting at me with four, they’re four, they’re called forty-fours. And there was shooting at me with tracers. And I could see the tracers coming right at me and went underneath, so, I, we weren't hit. Army Air Force ; D-Day 1124 Involvement with Lehigh Valley military organizations NK: I've been very active here. I’m in, uh, four military boards. I'm on 14 boys [unclear] for military boards, and I, uh, represent on the liaison officer for the city of Allentown for the military. And, so, I deal with all the various services and I'm one of the founders of Lehigh Valley Military Affairs Council. Uh, and we work with homeless, uh, and families and many other things. Education. Uh, we have 157 organizations, so, we're an organization of organizations. And, we, uh, have been very, very helpful and very successful. Very recognized. Lehigh Valley Military Affairs Council ; military boards ; veterans 1173 Correspondence during WWII KR: I admire all your work. You were in the UK flying around in that area. Did you correspond with anybody? Anybody at home or people back at Muhlenberg or Allentown? NK: I didn't have that much time. But I did correspond with some few friends and my parents, of course, and they came out with what they call the V and the V letters where they actually wired them over. That was the first time they did. And of course, they censored a lot. So, uh, my parents saved all my letters. I have them all and, uh, I have to laugh when I read some of them. But, uh, one of the letters I have to mention, I was 18, I was 19, and, uh, I wrote a letter to my parents, uh, there was a couple more months to go before I reached my 20th year. And I wrote them that I just hope I can get out of my teens. So, I made it. [laugh] I wasn't 21 when the war ended. correspondence ; letters ; V Letters ; Victory Flashes ; World War II 1258 Advice for Muhlenberg Students KR: So, one of the questions that we've asked people, is a question that we think that you have gained so much insight, you've had so many amazing experiences. If you were to think of addressing the entire Muhlenberg student body, what is one thing you would give them as far as advice, one piece of advice? NK: Where do I begin? [laughs]. That’s very difficult. There were so many aspects of my life. So many directions that I took. Basically, straighten up and fly right. That’s the best way I can say it. 1321 Returning to Muhlenberg after serving in WWII KR: A lot of our students who are coming back as adults, if you will, we’d be interested to hear -- NK: Well, that's, that's the word, adults. When I came back, I expected to go back to school, which I did. But these were a bunch of kids. My fellow students were, to me, were a bunch of, I had nothing in common with them. To me, it was just, I hate to put it this way, giggling, giggling kids. You know, and what I had just gone through, uh, I was very, not that I acted that way within myself, I didn't feel that way, but I really, I was very mature. So, I, I had nothing in common with the students. They were all very nice, but I didn't gain any friends there. As I say, they were kids. Yeah, they were 18 and I was all of 20 (laugh) we're going through what I did. Uh, but that was my experience, that the professors were great. I was able to converse and, and not to belittle the students at all. It's just that I had nothing in common with them to talk about. 1413 Knowledge of German during the War KR: Were there any professors that stand out to you, that you have special memories, whether it's a professor, a Dean, Dr. Tyson? NK: Well, all the professors, including Dr. Tyson, we're very understanding and, uh, [teary], uh, uh, they were really great. The only problem I had was with my German professor. We couldn't talk English [laugh] in the class, but I spoke German anyway. German ; prisoners 1494 Buying champagne while stationed in Europe NK: Uh, we were stationed near, I don't mean to get off the subject, we were stationed near, uh, a big champagne country. Their champagne runs about 80, 90 dollars a bottle now, and it cost us 50 cents a bottle. We'd get a case. There were six of us living in a muddy tent and we'd get a case and a bottle of cognac. And between the six of us would, we’d finish it off and put the empty case out by the door. And then we had a two and a half truck coming around in the tents and picking up the empties. We’d come back from a mission, there's a full case there, so, [laugh], the water wasn't good anyway, so, anyway. That’s what we told everybody, but I had to mention that, that was very, very funny. champagne ; French ; German ; Rouen Champagne 1609 Leave time in Paris / travels to Belgium, Scotland, and the Netherlands SFM: Now, you had some leave time in Paris. Right? NK: [laugh] I was afraid you’d mention that [laugh]. Uh, we weren't allowed to go to Paris because the snipers were still there. So , we, I snuck into Paris, took my insignia off. And the first place I went was the Folies Bergere. Where else would I go? So, anyway, I got to know the bartender and he spoke German and, uh, so we became pretty friendly. And what he did is he, he sent me back into the dressing room. Amsterdam ; Belgium ; Folies Bergere ; Franklin Delano Roosevelt ; Holland ; Paris 1832 Shipped home after VE day / becoming an officer JR: After VE day, where you, what did they do with you? Did you go back home, er, because Japan was still going full force at that point. NK: Right. I was, uh, shipped out on my own orders, uh, within a week after I finished my missions, which was just before, uh, the week or so, before VE day. And, uh, they sent me home at the point system and I had plenty of points because you got five points for every metal. And I had, uh, I had over 20 medals. I had ten, ten Air Medals alone. So, uh, anyway, when I got in there, it was so funny. This, uh, second lieutenant was, and now he was pretty old fellow in my estimate. And he looked over my, over his glasses, and said, “Son, you've been around.” Anyway, uh, I thought I was going to Japan and, instead, they, uh, put me off of active duty. And about a week or two later, I received a note, would I accept the commission, direct commission, you know, because I did the work actually of an officer to begin with. And I said, of course, and that's how I became a commissioned officer and then went through the ranks from second lieutenant on up to major. And, uh, then of course, I was working with the military and then with the, uh, with the, uh, FBI together with the military. And that's how I got involved with them. Army Air Forces ; Federal Bureau of Investigation ; second lieutenant ; VE day 1962 Reflections on military and civilian flying NK: [laugh] No, I [laugh] would have another name for them than butter bars. But, it was spelled different. But, uh, though, you know, as a second lieutenant, I was a second lieutenant over a year. I wasn't even concerned about getting a promotion or anything. Then they automatically, uh, promoted me. The other thing that was really funny is, uh, when they were, uh, they were, uh, testing aircraft, uh, after they were shot down or, or beat up pretty bad, the test pilot, uh, invited me to fly with him when I wasn't flying on a mission. And so here I am flying a bomber, never flew a plane and flying a bomber, of course, straight and level and not doing any maneuvers or anything. Air Force 2133 Bomb experience in flight JR: How many, how many gravity weapons did the Maurader carry, how many bombs? NK: We carried 8500 pound bombs. I have a picture of it and I had one case where, uh, with when you're bombs release, you had a you have a red lights on a board and as each bomb went out, the red light went out. Well, the bombs I thought went out. One ray of light stayed on. I couldn’t figure out what the heck is going on. So, I went back and I had tried to close that's what it was. I tried to close a bomb bays they wouldn’t close. I went back and here a bomb is sticking out of the bottom, bottom of the aircraft. But the, uh, the door’s jammed against it, the back shackle didn’t release, the front one did. And here it had a little propeller on it. That was our first radar bombs, we, they were set to go off a 100 feet off a solid object. So, anyway the guys at the back bailed out. Then I went down, we took the chance and we landed at our, at our base very gently and we made it. We had another case about a month or so later. Boy, the same thing happened and they landed and they blew up. And one of my jobs was to go out and, and, uh, verify who they were because I knew the crew members. So, to this day, I don't wear a seat belt in my car. [laugh] It was pretty bad. Army Air Force ; bombs ; Maurader MovingImage Nathan Kline, a native of Allentown, attended Muhlenberg College before distinguishing himself, at the tender age of 17 as an Air Force bombardier/navigator flying missions in the European Theatre of Operations. In this interview, he recounts his enlistment ; his experiences as a bombardier/navigator, including being shot down and losing comrades ; his leisure time in France, and more. KATE RANIERI: What I will do though is ask you a question or ask you to respond to some ideas that I put forth [clears throat]. And then I&#039 ; m just gonna sit here and listen. I won&#039 ; t try and interfere, OK? And so what we&#039 ; ll end up talking about is we&#039 ; ll go back a little bit to the early years and in kind of a chronology, but--- NATHAN KLINE: What is this for, by the way? KR: Oh, sorry, my bad. This is a project where we&#039 ; re looking at those who were at Muhlenberg at one time or another during, um, the V-12, and even some people up to, uh, Korean War and more, but mostly V-12 program like, so World War II, these are narratives about World War II. NK: I see. KR: And, so, for example, we&#039 ; ve interviewed people who started in the V-12 program. Some didn&#039 ; t go through the V-12 program. They were, um, local, you know, local men who were at Muhlenberg for short period of time, but then went on to the military and different [unclear]. NK: I enlisted, of course. I was 18, but I came back to Muhlenberg after, after the war and was there a semester or so and then my father took ill in the business so I went in temporarily to help, of course, got married and everything else, never went back. But I had been very, uh, loyal to Muhlenberg whenever I can help, I do every year. And they send me a note, please help us and uh --- KR: Oh, a note? They&#039 ; re not asking for your correspondence, are they? NK: No. [laughter]. Just for my signature. KR: OK. So, the project is that we&#039 ; re collecting stories. We are also doing archival research and we eventually we&#039 ; ll have a documentary-- NK: Well, I think I think was a film made of when I gave the lecture there? SUSAN FALCIANI MALDONADO: We did take some pictures, um, but, no, we weren&#039 ; t recording. NK: Oh, OK. KR: So that&#039 ; s what the project is about. NK: OK. So, I&#039 ; ll be history. KR: Yes, in different forms. NK: I can&#039 ; t say I am history because I&#039 ; m still here to talk about it. KR: And I&#039 ; m very glad you are here [laugh]. So that&#039 ; s essentially what the project is. And in fact, this, um, fall of 2015, the documentary research students, the students that I teach in the media communication department at Muhlenberg, will be doing research, small documentaries, two- to four-minute documentaries about Muhlenberg at the intersections of the V-12 program. So, this will continue. Okay? NK: To be continued. KR: Continue. Yes, exactly. So, when we get through with our interview, I have the consent form for you to sign, but I&#039 ; m also going to leave behind a description in more detail about the project. And anytime you have any questions about the project, you&#039 ; re free to contact Susan or me, either one. And we have all our information on that piece of paper. NK: OK. I don&#039 ; t have a problem. KR: Alright. So, shall we begin? NK: We shall begin. KR: This is August 24th, 2015. I&#039 ; m back in 1930, sorry. [Laugh]. That&#039 ; s where our research is. Research in 2015. And we&#039 ; re interviewing Major Nate Kline here, now in Allentown, Pennsylvania. And I thank you very much for giving us your time and your expertise and showing us all the wonderful things that you had about your life. So, what I&#039 ; d like to do, if it&#039 ; s okay with you, is just start back in the time when you were in high school. Go back and tell me what your aspirations were when you were in high school, considering what was going on in the world, and whether you were thinking of going into the military. Were you thinking about going into college? You can think back on what you were thinking when you were a young 17-year-old? NK: Well, I my, desire, uh, was to become a research, go into research in cancer cause some peoples, part of my family had a problem with cancer and, that, I wanted to be a doctor. Uh, and of course, when the, uh, war broke out, I still wasn&#039 ; t affected that much. I was 17. Just 17. And, but then when it started to really get moving, uh, I wanted to, uh, join the fight. And that&#039 ; s when I left, uh, school and enlisted in the Air Force, well, the Army Air Force at that time. KR: So, you left high school or you left--? NK: Muhlenberg. I was on my first semester at Muhlenberg. KR: What was it like being at Muhlenberg that first semester? NK: It was, uh, it was great. I mean, I knew a lot of people being from Allentown and the faculty were very, very cooperative, very helpful. Uh, and don&#039 ; t forget, I lived in this area near Muhlenberg since I was a kid. So, I used to go over there and play [laugh] when I was a kid and, uh, I knew the grounds very well and I, uh, felt right at home. The only part that I didn&#039 ; t like, I had to come from home. I couldn&#039 ; t billet in the dorm there because I was right there and I would&#039 ; ve enjoyed that, but that didn&#039 ; t happen. KR: You&#039 ; re from the community, from Allentown. NK: Correct. KR: Can you give us a kind of picture of the relationship between Muhlenberg and Allentown, the city of Allentown, the community members during that particular time? NK: Well, back in the thirties, I can remember back that far, uh, it seemed to have been more not, semi-religious school, it was a Lutheran school, as you know. And it seemed to emphasize, uh, more of the, uh, of the religion. We, as a matter of fact, we had chapel every Friday morning. So, but then, af, when the war started, after the war started, things began to change. Attitudes began to change. And it wasn&#039 ; t that I was very religious, but it was just a matter was well-known and it was Lutheran school. And, of course, the attitude after the war started and a lot of those things changed. KR: So, what was life like in Allentown, you know, like on Hamilton or 7th Street or--? NK: Well, let me say that it&#039 ; s my grandfather came to Allentown in 1892. He had a large hotel at tenth and Hamilton Street. And, uh, I spent some time working with the FBI as I showed you. And I found out that my first two years of life, I lived in the hotel, never knew that. But as to, uh, commercial business and so forth, when you look at what we have today, it&#039 ; s, it&#039 ; s changed a bit in the last year or so. But on a Saturday afternoon, you couldn&#039 ; t walk on the north side of Hamilton Street. This is during 1933-35 in the Depression. And on Thursday nights, were shopping nights, again it was very crowded. There was a lot of business. And of course, unfortunately, when the shopping centers coming in, a lot of those business moved out and that was the downfall of downtown Allentown until recent times, as you know, where it&#039 ; s going, they&#039 ; re doing a fantastic job bringing business back. KR: During the lead up to the war, there was a lot of defense industries and even afterwards, where people did a lot of efforts toward the war, like Victory Gardens, scrapping, that sort of thing--did you, were you involved in any of that in the community? NK: Uh, not as an individual, but we had our own Victory Garden. And yes, we saved old cans and, and any metal we could turn it in. There were depots where, to drop the stuff off. And we were well aware of the need of both. KR: Anyone, people in your family work towards the war effort? NK: Uh, well, my father, uh, he was, uh, became a member of the Home Guard [laugh]. And, uh, so, uh, it was something like the uh, uh, like the Pennsylvania Guard, but it was more of a civilian, they had uniforms and they&#039 ; d, uh, serve once a month or once a week, whatever it was. And it was tough because, uh, we tried to run a business which was with salespeople. We sold on the road and it wasn&#039 ; t retail. And of course, he lost his salesmen and he had to do both, his duty as a Home Guardsmen and be on the road and run a business. So, it was pretty tough. KR: So, you left after a few months, left Muhlenberg? NK: I left, came at Muhlenberg in September left in November, November 6th. KR: So where did you go from there? NK: Well, I went in to, uh, just outside a Harrisburg and, uh, was given a, a, uh, suit, a uniform that didn&#039 ; t fit, and a winter uniform, and we were shipped down to Miami Beach. Here, we have winter uniforms in the summer, well, it was warm, and, uh, going down to Miami Beach. It took us seven days to get down there in the train because it had to stop and troop trains and all that. And, uh, we are placed in a hotel which was at the end of Miami Beach, was it called the McFadden-Deauville. There were still sit, still, uh, none military in there. And one of my cohorts was Clark Gable, by the way. And, uh, uh, from there I was shipped up to Waycross, Georgia, which was quite an experience for my basic training because in those days I wasn&#039 ; t aware of that when I went in, there was segregation until 1948. And, uh, we had a black housekeeper although my parents were in business and she almost brought me up like a mother when food [feels?] tremendous. Anyway, I didn&#039 ; t know about this segregation, and they had about 300 blacks on the other side of the base. And the food in our, in our, in our mess hall was terrible. So, I snuck over to the Black mess hall. There were a couple hundred. They greeted me with open arms and the food was terrific, the same food. And, uh, someone saw me who reported me to the CO. So, I was cleaning out the grease pit for a week [laugh] and then I was shipped over to England on the Queen Mary. KR: So, is that when you started flying? NK: Well, when I got to England, or by the way, the Queen Mary, we had no escort because it was very, very fast and we had 10 thousand troops on the, on the ship. And they billeted males, a PFC, Private, first-class, they&#039 ; d billeted me down in the hole and the pumps going online and, uh, two meals, only two meals a day and I was kind of disgusted. So, I ate a box of, I brought a box of Hershey bars and ate the whole box and was constipated for a week. [Laugh]. Then I got to Scotland and we, uh, were put on a train and they gave us, we, we were told was tea And I never drank tea with powdered milk in it, and I never drank tea with milk. But even worse, and I didn&#039 ; t understand a word of the, of the gals that were feeding [unclear] heavy Scottish accent. And we were sent down to Colchester, England, uh, and that&#039 ; s where I had my duty. I was very unhappy counting blankets [laugh] and, uh, supplying the troops. So, when they, the bombardiers, as I mentioned earlier, uh, were killed faster, wounded faster than they could be replaced, so they started a 90-day school for not only bombardiering, but navigation and gunnery. I was never, at this point, I was never even up in an airplane. Uh, so, I was determined to get in and pass the, uh, written exam. Uh, so I snuck into the, uh, area where they, uh, check you for your, help to meet the requirements of your eye and so forth. And I went into the night before and I memorized the eye chart. It was &quot ; NDHRCLEK&quot ; and that&#039 ; s how I got in to fly. Uh, and I put my glasses on when I get in to the end of the nose. But after that, nobody cared anymore because they needed me more, [laugh], more than I needed them. Since I flew with four different crews because they couldn&#039 ; t replace them fast enough, so that&#039 ; s how I, uh, when I started, you&#039 ; re supposed to do, uh, uh, 30 missions and then it went up to 50 missions, and then 65 missions because they, they needed us to fly. Uh, and that was my adventure there. I was shot down twice in one week during the time of the Bulge. And, uh, I was, uh, sent over to Scotland for tour for 15 days. And the crew that I actually flew my last 12 missions with, uh, was shot down and killed. I would have been on that mission if I had been back a few days earlier, uh, and that&#039 ; s pretty much of my time. I met a lot of great people, civilians, and, uh, a lot of crew members I flew with, I say four different crews and, uh, everything went very well for me and it was amazing. I didn&#039 ; t get nervous or anything because when the flack was bursting all around, I was too busy with navigation, except on D-Day. We were supposed to fly in at eight thousand feet and we flew in at four thousand because of the weather. And, uh, they, uh, they hadn&#039 ; t, instead of 88, which were big cannons, they had 40 millimeters because at that low temperature, low altitude, they couldn&#039 ; t use 88s. And these were tracers, so I could actually see between my legs, I could see the gunners sitting in there, shooting at me with four, they&#039 ; re four, they&#039 ; re called forty-fours. And there was shooting at me with tracers. And I could see the tracers coming right at me and went underneath, so, I, we weren&#039 ; t hit. But, uh, when I got up to 12 thousand feet, uh, a piece of flack about four inches in diameter, uh, tore, I had my, uh, navigational maps on the floor, came right between my legs. I happen to just put my head back and went out the top, missed my head by edges. And, uh, the, uh, pilot called me and asked me if I&#039 ; m alright. I said I&#039 ; m fine, but those so and so&#039 ; s, they&#039 ; ve ripped up my maps work [laughs] more upset about that than I was about getting hit. So that was one of the other experiences. Uh, on my fifth mission, we are hit by flack so bad that uh, uh, oil or petrol tanks were, we&#039 ; re leaking pretty bad. So, we had to get out of formation. And, here I was 18 years old. This is only my fifth mission. By the way, the burst was so large, larger than the plane. And I&#039 ; m in the nose, I can say those bursts coming right at us. But, uh, we flew to just one point in England, it&#039 ; s called King&#039 ; s Lynn. And I was able to navigate there and we landed and we just pulled off the runway and then the engines quit, out of gas. So, I was a real hero that day at 18. KR: Pretty early to be a hero. NK: [laughs] Yeah, well, I took it all in stride. And of course, on D-Day, which was I showed you the photo I took with my Brownie box camera. They start the American Expeditionary Force Radio at five o&#039 ; clock in the morning with the national anthem. And so here I&#039 ; m flying cross the channel, a whole evasion point coming across and then the national anthem, uh, it was very, yeah, it brought tears to your eyes. Uh, and, uh, so, I survived and I&#039 ; m back. I&#039 ; ve been very active here. I&#039 ; m in, uh, four military boards. I&#039 ; m on 14 boys [unclear] for military boards, and I, uh, represent on the liaison officer for the city of Allentown for the military. And, so, I deal with all the various services and I&#039 ; m one of the founders of Lehigh Valley Military Affairs Council. Uh, and we work with homeless, uh, and families and many other things. Education. Uh, we have 157 organizations, so, we&#039 ; re an organization of organizations. And, we, uh, have been very, very helpful and very successful. Very recognized. KR: I admire all your work. You were in the UK flying around in that area. Did you correspond with anybody? Anybody at home or people back at Muhlenberg or Allentown? NK: I didn&#039 ; t have that much time. But I did correspond with some few friends and my parents, of course, and they came out with what they call the V and the V letters where they actually wired them over. That was the first time they did. And of course, they censored a lot. So, uh, my parents saved all my letters. I have them all and, uh, I have to laugh when I read some of them. But, uh, one of the letters I have to mention, I was 18, I was 19, and, uh, I wrote a letter to my parents, uh, there was a couple more months to go before I reached my 20th year. And I wrote them that I just hope I can get out of my teens. So, I made it. [laugh] I wasn&#039 ; t 21 when the war ended. KR: You did make it and then some. [Laugh]. So, one of the questions that we&#039 ; ve asked people, is a question that we think that you have gained so much insight, you&#039 ; ve had so many amazing experiences. If you were to think of addressing the entire Muhlenberg student body, what is one thing you would give them as far as advice, one piece of advice? NK: Where do I begin? [laughs]. That&#039 ; s very difficult. There were so many aspects of my life. So many directions that I took. Basically, straighten up and fly right. That&#039 ; s the best way I can say it. KR: That&#039 ; s wonderful. Don&#039 ; t you just I love it? [laughs] Susan, do you have any questions? Or Tony, Jim, either one? Any questions? SFM: Can you tell Kate what was it [unclear] KR: A lot of our students who are coming back as adults, if you will, we&#039 ; d be interested to hear -- NK: Well, that&#039 ; s, that&#039 ; s the word, adults. When I came back, I expected to go back to school, which I did. But these were a bunch of kids. My fellow students were, to me, were a bunch of, I had nothing in common with them. To me, it was just, I hate to put it this way, giggling, giggling kids. You know, and what I had just gone through, uh, I was very, not that I acted that way within myself, I didn&#039 ; t feel that way, but I really, I was very mature. So, I, I had nothing in common with the students. They were all very nice, but I didn&#039 ; t gain any friends there. As I say, they were kids. Yeah, they were 18 and I was all of 20 [laugh] we&#039 ; re going through what I did. Uh, but that was my experience, that the professors were great. I was able to converse and, and not to belittle the students at all. It&#039 ; s just that I had nothing in common with them to talk about. KR: Their worldview was very narrow. NK: It was. KR: Were there any professors that stand out to you, that you have special memories, whether it&#039 ; s a professor, a Dean, Dr. Tyson? NK: Well, all the professors, including Dr. Tyson, we&#039 ; re very understanding and, uh, [teary], uh, uh, they were really great. The only problem I had was with my German professor. We couldn&#039 ; t talk English [laugh] in the class, but I spoke German anyway. By the way, I, I, uh, I interviewed a couple of German prisoners or questioned them and, uh, because I spoke German. A couple of them were shot down over our field. And they come in whether their flight suit on, they took their flight suit off and there they are in full uniform, a black uniform, all their medals [laughs] and this is the way they are flying. But, uh, I, uh, I&#039 ; ll show you one of the, one of the things one of them gave me when I was talking to them. But that was something that was very interesting, for me. Uh, we were stationed near, I don&#039 ; t mean to get off the subject, we were stationed near, uh, a big champagne country. Their champagne runs about 80, 90 dollars a bottle now, and it cost us 50 cents a bottle. We&#039 ; d get a case. There were six of us living in a muddy tent and we&#039 ; d get a case and a bottle of cognac. And between the six of us would, we&#039 ; d finish it off and put the empty case out by the door. And then we had a two and a half truck coming around in the tents and picking up the empties. We&#039 ; d come back from a mission, there&#039 ; s a full case there, so, [laugh], the water wasn&#039 ; t good anyway, so, anyway. That&#039 ; s what we told everybody, but I had to mention that, that was very, very funny. KR: Where did the champagne come from? NK: Rouen KR: A local purveyor? NK: Yes. Yes. They&#039 ; re very popular here. I can&#039 ; t remember the name, but I know, I priced the bottles here and our liquor stores, it&#039 ; s around 60, 70 dollars a bottle. NK: So, uh, it was, uh, we met some, uh, I met, I met some civilians, the farmer&#039 ; s daughter [laugh]. Uh, we arrived at a farm and the uh, the Germans were there for four years. So I didn&#039 ; t speak any French. And this is in France. I didn&#039 ; t speak any French but I spoke German and, of course, most of them had learned how to speak German . And so I learned how to speak French without one word of English spoken. My French was kind of bad but at least enough to get around. So, that&#039 ; s how I learned how to speak French through my knowledge of German SFM: Now, you had some leave time in Paris. Right? NK: [laugh] I was afraid you&#039 ; d mention that [laugh]. Uh, we weren&#039 ; t allowed to go to Paris because the snipers were still there. So , we, I snuck into Paris, took my insignia off. And the first place I went was the Folies Bergere. Where else would I go? So, anyway, I got to know the bartender and he spoke German and, uh, so we became pretty friendly. And what he did is he, he sent me back into the dressing room. Here these, I&#039 ; m 18 years old, home are these gals, six foot tall, and very, not dressed very much that had had they were sitting on my lap. I&#039 ; m going crazy. 18-year-old, he&#039 ; s beautiful. When he told them I was American millionaire with a Cadillac and every thing, so, they thought they&#039 ; d try to get ahead. And I went back to the bar and I drank more champagne. And I actually and he permitted me to sleep on the lounge there that night. I didn&#039 ; t even leave the place. That was my first experience in Paris. So they treated me very well. By the way, the French, when I first went into Paris, they were terrific. I&#039 ; d go into a night club or café, you couldn&#039 ; t buy a drink. And I came back, uh, in 1953 to visit some friends I had made there. And there were signs, Yankee, Go Home. That was really, hurt to see that. And that&#039 ; s when they move the, all of the country&#039 ; s wasn&#039 ; t cool or all the countries together ; they&#039 ; re up in Belgium now. Yeah, they took all moved them out into Belgium. So, feelings pretty bad and I was really upset about that. So, that&#039 ; s part of my life. KR: So when you talk about coming back to Muhlenberg, you&#039 ; ve got more experience than just wartime. You had the Folies Bergere, right? NK: Yes. [laugh] Among other things, yes. The French were, were very, very friendly. KR: And you met people from other countries, right? Like you were in Scotland and -- NK: Oh, yes. Scotland. And, uh, of course I, I travelled a little, when I had leave. I went into Belgium. I was, by the way, I was in, I was in, uh, I was in Amsterdam in Holland. And I was at a hotel and I get a knock on the door above five o&#039 ; clock in the morning. I had gotten in like two o&#039 ; clock in the morning and they said, please come out, your, your president had died. That&#039 ; s when President Roosevelt died. And I was able to get down, there by nine o&#039 ; clock. And I come out and the whole city was draped in black, all the, uh, all the stores and it was amazing. They really liked him. Uh, so that was my experience there. KR: I bet. JIM RANIERI: After VE day, where you, what did they do with you? Did you go back home, er, because Japan was still going full force at that point. NK: Right. I was, uh, shipped out on my own orders, uh, within a week after I finished my missions, which was just before, uh, the week or so, before VE day. And, uh, they sent me home at the point system and I had plenty of points because you got five points for every metal. And I had, uh, I had over 20 medals. I had ten, ten Air Medals alone. So, uh, anyway, when I got in there, it was so funny. This, uh, second lieutenant was, and now he was pretty old fellow in my estimate. And he looked over my, over his glasses, and said, &quot ; Son, you&#039 ; ve been around.&quot ; Anyway, uh, I thought I was going to Japan and, instead, they, uh, put me off of active duty. And about a week or two later, I received a note, would I accept the commission, direct commission, you know, because I did the work actually of an officer to begin with. And I said, of course, and that&#039 ; s how I became a commissioned officer and then went through the ranks from second lieutenant on up to major. And, uh, then of course, I was working with the military and then with the, uh, with the, uh, FBI together with the military. And that&#039 ; s how I got involved with them. KR: When you became a second lieutenant, did they have a special name for second lieutenants? NK: Well, looies was one. They had another name. I forgot where it was. Would you remember that? KR: Well, when I was in, when I was in the Air Force. They called them butter bars NK: [laugh] No, I [laugh] would have another name for them than butter bars. But, it was spelled different. But, uh, though, you know, as a second lieutenant, I was a second lieutenant over a year. I wasn&#039 ; t even concerned about getting a promotion or anything. Then they automatically, uh, promoted me. The other thing that was really funny is, uh, when they were, uh, they were, uh, testing aircraft, uh, after they were shot down or, or beat up pretty bad, the test pilot, uh, invited me to fly with him when I wasn&#039 ; t flying on a mission. And so here I am flying a bomber, never flew a plane and flying a bomber, of course, straight and level and not doing any maneuvers or anything. And, uh, so really, I really enjoyed that. And when I came back, uh, first thing, one of the first things I wanted to do is get a pilot&#039 ; s license. I wanted to fly. So, they sent me out to, uh, the airport, Allentown Bethlehem airport, and, uh, got to the office and instructor said, not the instructor, one of the guys that controls it, said, &quot ; Now go out to that aircraft and wait for the instructor. So, I&#039 ; m standing, waiting. And who shows up? The same guy that I was flying with doing these tests. He was from Bethlehem and I never knew this. So, he was an instructor there. [laugh] His father was a doctor. That was really, really funny. So, I did get my pilot&#039 ; s license, uh under the GI Bill. And, uh, when I was at Lehigh University with some professors who are pilots they wanted to get their doctorates. So, I was flying C-47s. 46s and 47s, straight glove. I wasn&#039 ; t taking off or landing and I, uh, enjoyed that. So, we, we on a Friday we&#039 ; d get into Harrisburg and we&#039 ; d get a seven, C -47 loaded with freight and we&#039 ; d fly it down to Florida. And unload it on a Friday and we had the plan for the whole weekend and wherever we want to go in the country and we&#039 ; d fly. Well, we flew out to Texas to visit my sister-in-law and we pulled in to an airbase and tell them to fill it up [laugh], fly anywhere, those things are really changed. They don&#039 ; t do that anymore. KR: They did that when we were in the Air Force. I mean, if you had leave time, jump on a plane and wherever it was going. I mean, we didn&#039 ; t take off down a highway or anything like that. Yeah, it was a great life. JR: How many, how many gravity weapons did the Maurader carry, how many bombs? NK: We carried eight 500 pound bombs. I have a picture of it and I had one case where, uh, with when you&#039 ; re bombs release, you had a you have a red lights on a board and as each bomb went out, the red light went out. Well, the bombs I thought went out. One ray of light stayed on. I couldn&#039 ; t figure out what the heck is going on. So, I went back and I had tried to close that&#039 ; s what it was. I tried to close a bomb bays they wouldn&#039 ; t close. I went back and here a bomb is sticking out of the bottom, bottom of the aircraft. But the, uh, the door&#039 ; s jammed against it, the back shackle didn&#039 ; t release, the front one did. And here it had a little propeller on it. That was our first radar bombs, we, they were set to go off a 100 feet off a solid object. So, anyway the guys at the back bailed out. Then I went down, we took the chance and we landed at our, at our base very gently and we made it. We had another case about a month or so later. Boy, the same thing happened and they landed and they blew up. And one of my jobs was to go out and, and, uh, verify who they were because I knew the crew members. So, to this day, I don&#039 ; t wear a seat belt in my car. [laugh] It was pretty bad. KR: You&#039 ; ve had lots of experiences. END OF AUDIO The interviews in the Muhlenberg Voices of World War II Collection were gathered by faculty and staff of Muhlenberg College with the purpose of preserving them for the College's archives. Copyright for these interviews remains with the interview subject or his estate. They are being shared publicly here with permission. video It is the sole responsibility of the researcher to identify and satisfy any claims of copyright before making use of reproductions beyond the conditions of fair use, as described by the United States Copyright Law. 0

World War II

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Lehigh Valley Military Affairs Council