Interview with John V. Shankweiler, January 15, 1973

PHILLIP SECOR: Phillip Secor speaking. I am the Dean of Muhlenberg College, talking to you from the Muhlenberg Room at the college library, on this, the 15th day of January, nineteen hundred and seventy-three. This tape is intended to be part of an oral history of Muhlenberg College, consisting primarily of conversations with senior members of the college community. Dr. Katherine Van Eerde, professor of history at the college, will be conducting this afternoon's interview conversation with Dr. John V. Shankweiler, Emeritus Professor of Biology at Muhlenberg.

Dr. Shankweiler, or Doc Shankweiler, as he has been known since long before I came to Muhlenberg some six years ago, has been associated with the college as student, professor, department head, architect of pre-medical studies, emeritus professor for now these 56 years. He is one of only three living professors whose association with Muhlenberg has spanned the past half century of the College's history. I am delighted that Doc Shankweiler has agreed to help us 00:01:00inaugurate this oral history project by talking with Dr. Van Eerde this afternoon. Dr. Van Eerde.

KATHERINE VAN EERDE: Thank you, Dean Secor.

Doc, you are the only living member of the Muhlenberg staff, administration, or faculty who has a college building named for you, the John V. Shankweiler Biology Building. It seems appropriate, therefore, that we begin this talk by asking about your role in developing the biology department and, perhaps equally significant, in your work on the pre-medical program here.

JOHN SHANKWEILER: Well, I joined faculty in 1921. In the biology department composed of one laboratory, one classroom, on the 3rd floor of the Ettinger building, which was then known, of course, as the Administration building. My 00:02:00appointment to the faculty here, of course, was entirely unexpected 'cause I taught high school for two years and, uh, in the spring of my senior year at college here, I visited three high schools, was accepted at every one. The day after I came back, Dr. Bailey, who was then head of the department, invited me to join the faculty here, which I accepted at a sacrifice of about 600 dollars.

KVE: (chuckle) Typical, isn't it?

JS: My high school position would have paid me 2400 hundred. My salary here was 1800 dollars. And I was told then by Dr. Bailey that I would never get more money here. If I wanted more money, I had to go some other place.

KVE: This was in 1921?

JS: Yes. But, then, during my second year here (clearing throat), uh, I made a lot of microscope slides. Uh, the department was poorly equipped. If I had a class in the lab, I'd have students working on three, four different things and then pass them back and forth. So, I made enough slides, uh, to use for the whole class. And I kept a careful record of it and at the end of the year, I went to Dr. Haas and showed him this and he looked at it, and he said, "Hmm" and said, "You've earned your salary here."

"Yes, I think I did," because it happened that I saved the college more money 00:04:00than my salary.

KVE: Really?

JS: So, he said, "Alright, I'll give you more money." So, I got more money, really, in spite of that. And, uh, so, while I was told that I wouldn't be here for long, I'm still around (chuckle).

KVE: And, we're very happy.

JS: Then in 1927, of course, the department moved to what was the new science building then, the 3rd floor, but finally, also, to the second floor. And of course, there was a gradual growth in equipment and the staff went from two up to seven,

KVE: Very sizable

JS: . . . of which five of the present staff were formal students of mine. Then, uh, of course, uh, I had the honor of having this new building named.

In 1931, after I came back from Cornell with my Ph.D. degree, I got the idea of organizing what was then called a premedical club. I had a conference with the students and they were very enthusiastic about it and the club was then organized. And my idea was to put the students in closer contact with the medical work, eh, have them find out about, eh, more about medicine. And I had the doctors come in to talk to them, eh, on the various stages of medicine, various specialties and so forth.

And, at the first meeting of the year, I always had a representative of the medical school come in and tell them what was required for, eh, medical school.

KVE: Excuse me. Now this would be in the 1930s?

JS: Yes. Thirty-one.

KVE: Uh, huh. About twenty to thirty years before other people began doing this, I would think.

JS: Yes. And then, uh, while I could have told students what was required, I figured it would mean more if it, say, come from the horse's mouth, come from a medical school representative. And, I didn't only have representatives of medical schools, but also dental schools. And, uh, while mostly I had, uh, doctors who were Muhlenberg graduates come in, uh, they did very willingly, but I also had other people.

And then, uh, for a while, every year, we had a banquet, to which we had doctors who were Muhlenberg graduates were invited as guests of the college. I had some very important people come in as speakers, uh, particularly at those, uh, meetings. For instance, I had Dr. James Walsh, Fordham University; Dr. Stanley Riley, Lankenau Hospital, who was one of the outstanding surgeons in, uh, of the country; Dr. Edgar Miller, professor of biochemistry, College of Physicians and 00:06:00Surgeons, Columbia University; Dr. Perrin Long, Professor of Preventive Medicine, Johns Hopkins University. He was the man who was responsible for the sulfanilamides in this country. And, in fact, he published a book and I have an autographed copy of this.

And, uh, an amusing incident happened that, those days Dr. Hausman on the board of trustees here and he was the head surgeon, uh, down at the hospital. And every year, they had a seminar there. I think they still have it. And he tried to get, uh, Dr. Long to come up to talk to this seminar. And he had entertained, ur, uh, Dr. Long, myself, and a few other people at his home after the meeting. 00:07:00But, uh, Dr. Long wouldn't come up. And Dr. Hausman asked me, "How in the world did you get Dr. Long to come up here to talk to the group when I couldn't get him?"

I said, "You don't know the ropes."

(chuckles) Because, uh, I had worked through Dr. Tyson (clears throat) and, uh, asked, told him what I wanted, like to have somebody really big to come in. He said, "How would you like somebody from Johns Hopkins?"

"Fine."

Said, "The president of Johns Hopkins owes me a favor."

(chuckles) Dr. Long got his orders from the president of Johns Hopkins, himself.

KVE: President himself, President Gilman, perhaps, was it? I was wondering who the president was.

JS: What? I forget who it was. Ah, and, uh, see, Dr. Perrin Long was, uh, flown out to, uh, Hawaii immediately after Pearl Harbor to supervise the treatment of the wounds. Uh, so, uh, we had and then also in addition to that, for some years, oh, Dr. Detlev Bronk, Professor of Physiology, Cornell Medical School. And there was a peculiar incident there. Those days the faculty was asked to recommend people for honorary degrees and I recommended Dr. Bronk. Of course, it 00:08:00was just ignored. Just turned out later he was president of Johns Hopkins and later on with the Rockefeller Foundation.

KVE: Right, I knew him. Mm-huh.

JS: So, I haven't recommended (chuckles) anybody since.

KVE: Ah, too bad.

JS: And then Dr. Alan Moritz, Head of Legal Medicine, Harvard University. And Dr. Gabriel Nehas, Mayo Clinic. So, I really had some -

KVE: You certainly built quality into the program, didn't you, from the beginning?

JS: Then, for some years, there was a joint meeting of the pre-medical clubs of the colleges of the Lehigh Valley--Lafayette, Lehigh, Moravian, Cedar Crest and Muhlenberg. And some of these speakers which I mentioned with the book, of 00:09:00course, uh, spoke at those too, those meetings. Dr. Clark Wescoe also spoke at one of those meetings and gave possibly the best talk we had, at one of those meetings [clears throat].

KVE: Doc, excuse me, about how many people attended these, uh, sessions? Twenty, 25?

JS: Oh, no, uh. You mean?

KVE: Of the club, the medical, no, I meant, really, how large first was your club here at Muhlenberg? Did it range widely or was it, fairly?

JS: Oh, it ran to 40-50.

KVE: Did it really? At Muhlenberg.

JS: Forty-50.

KVE: Of course, you'd have maybe a hundred when you joined all of them together.

JS: Yes. Then, of course, I made practically every year, made personal visits to the medical schools. And then, every year, the club visited a medical school or dental school where they made tours of the school and, at some places, they even 00:10:00took them to observe operations.

And this had some beneficial effects, uh, in that it encouraged some but the opposite [KV laughing] to other, because after some of those visits, the student would come back to me and say, "Well, I'm making up my mind, this is not for me" and changed their, changed their courses.

While they mostly visited the Philadelphia schools, because they were close by and one day's trip, but twice we went to New York and visited Columbia and Cornell Medical Schools. We went to Johns Hopkins and this is the first time 00:11:00they had ever entertained such a group of students.

And that was a trip that was never be forgotten because that was the time the bus driver lost the bus.

KVE: [laughing] Did he ever find it again?

JS: Well, uh, see, we left one afternoon, during the afternoon, when we were due to be at the med school the next morning. First place, the bus broke down, driving down, then he didn't know Baltimore, had a hard time finding the hotel we were going to. Then I had given him orders to meet us at nine o'clock the 00:12:00next morning to take us to the medical school. He didn't show up. He didn't show up. Finally, I put the boys on taxis, and send them out. And I also had told him where to come to--gave him the street address-- to pick us up at the medical school at the end of the program. We were out waiting for him, waiting. Finally, I saw him come walking up the street. I said, "Where's the bus?"

He said, "I don't know."

Instead of coming to this address I had given him, he drives out to Johns Hopkins and starts asking for us. But the one place he didn't go to was the medical school. The other places, of course, knew nothing about it. And here he parked the bus, didn't check the street, you know, where he had parked and didn't know where he was. So, I had to send scouts out to (laugh) find the bus. 00:13:00Coming back, he was stopped by the state police because his tail lights didn't work.

Then, we also visited the Sharpe and Dome Laboratories and Swiftwater Laboratories up in the Poconos. We visited the Allentown State Hospital, the Rittersville Hospital and, uh, at the Allentown State Hospital, there's a peculiar incident. The doc that took us in the auditorium and explained to the students about the various types of mental deficiencies, started with the idiot on up the line. And, uh, then he said, "Now, I have examples of these, uh, out 00:14:00in the hall with nurses. I'm going to bring them in and said, "Whatever you do, don't laugh. Whatever they do or say, don't laugh because, uh, if you do, they're like to clam up and not respond. So, now I'm going to show you a typical example of an idiot. He walks back, opens the door and in walks a Muhlenberg student who had come late (laugh). And, uh, strange, strange thing, 'bout two years after that, that student committed suicide.

Uh, then another time we were over with the State Hospital, uh, one of the 00:15:00doctors, again, uh, explained to the group, uh, and he told us still the only difference between you people and the people in the, in the institution here is a matter of degree. And then he went on, said, "Some of you think you're really hot" and so forth and so on. "Well," he said, "We have a fellow here who thinks he's Christ himself [laugh]."

That made me laugh. I'd still pay 25 dollars for the talk he gave because he has everybody feeling that there was, that there was something wrong.

During the war years, when there was lack of transportation, it was difficulty, 00:16:00difficult, of course, for people here. So, then I got, uh, movies of operations and things like that which, uh, I could get from the Allentown hospital and other sources.

Then, uh, originally, of course, when it came to recommending people for medical school, they had to get three recommendations--were in [hand slapping paper on desk] biology, chemistry, physics. And we got to the point where I was blamed 100 per cent if the student didn't, uh, didn't get into medical school. So, I got the idea of forming a committee. And I went to medical schools, had consultations with the Deans where most of our students went, to the Philadelphia schools, and asked them what are they, would they'd rather have, one recommendation from a committee which, however, included all those people, rather than separate recommendations, and they said yes. And one dean asked his secretary to get the folder of Muhlenberg applicants and then he showed me how, er, these recommendations for--

KVE: Rated, or evaluated, no?

JS: No. But, uh, they were inconsistent.

KVE: Oh, I see.

JS: See. I might say yes and your's would say no. Or I'd say no and somebody else would say yes. I said what are we gonna do? If we had one, however, including these people, uh, it would be, uh, much better. I'd never wrote a 00:17:00recommendation without, uh, checking the student's whole record. Other people would just recommend on the basis of their work in their department, see. But, uh, I always checked the student's record.

KVE: Very smart.

JS: So, that was the origin of this about pre-admit, uh, pre-admit committee. Now, our success in admissions to medical school, I think can be contributed to a, a number of things. First, the personal contact I had made. I mean, I was known by all the deans. And, I'd go to these visits and sat and have conversations, and so forth and so on. And, uh, I always promised them that 00:18:00these recommendations from Muhlenberg College, uh, would really be, well, let's say, truthful. And, uh, because, oh, some of the deans told me that they could not depend upon recommendations from many places because all the students were good.

KVE: Yes, yes, it's a temptation to write every recommendation well.

JS: In fact, they told me they were very close to not accepted, accepting any 00:19:00students from one college because, uh, of their recommendations.

And then, the third item, which, perhaps was as important as anyone is that the grades from Muhlenberg College were a good indication of the students' ability and the students would perform in medical school just about at the same level as they performed at college. And, uh, from, some places a couple of deans told me if an A student came to them they considered it a B because that was based on how their students performed, you see, when they got to medical school. So, I think those are the things that helped to establish the record. Now, I just recall of two students, there may have been more, cause, who actually failed in 00:20:00medical school. Now we had a few who dropped out because of, uh, nervous breakdowns or something like that, but actual failures were very few [inaudible].

KVE: Doc, last, uh, Christmas holidays, you and I were sitting together Andy Erskine's party, very near, about a mile or so, to the place where you were born and we started talking about the Pennsylvania Dutch background that you, almost uniquely, uh, show forth here at Muhlenberg now. Because Pennsylvania Germans were such a part of Muhlenberg's history and faculty and among the students and since we still reside in an area rich in memories of Pennsylvania Dutch ancestry 00:21:00and background, would you tell us a little about your early days, your schooling?

JS: Well, I'll just say I was born in Huffs Church, a small town in Berks county. And, uh, of course, it was very Pennsylvania German and I, uh, went to one room school there. I finished my eighth grade there. And, uh, something you've possibly never heard before, I had a post graduate year6 in public school 'cause just after I finished eighth grade there at Huffs Church, we moved to a farm and not knowing what to do, my parents insisted I attend the public school 00:22:00there in a town called Seisholtsville. And there I was very active in church and Sunday school, started a young people's society. In fact, there was a time when I was superintendent of Sunday school, president of the young people's society, an organist in the church, at the same time.

KVE: Clearly preparing for your many activities at Muhlenberg.

JS: Yes. Then, uh, through the influence of my music teacher, my father permitted me go to high school at Longswamp. This was just a two-year high school. And then, those days, uh, you could take an examination after high 00:23:00school and become a school teacher. The county superintendent gave the examinations. And again, this music teacher of mine wanted me to go to normal school. My father was insisting that I teach. So, I went for this examination. Of course, you had to be 18 years old to teach. I was not 18 at the time of the examination. I would have been 18 by the time I started teaching. But this music teacher talked to the county superintendent. He wouldn't let me take the examination. My father never knew that. Then because I couldn't teach, he 00:24:00permitted me to go to normal school. After I finished at normal school, I taught high school for two years up in Mohnton, a small town outside of Reading, at $45 a month. And, uh, at the end of my second year, they offered me the principalship but I had made up my mind to come to Muhlenberg College.

Of course, then, Uncle Sam stepped in and took me into the service. But, when I came back, then, I came here to college and, uh, graduated in 1921.

In, uh, well I mentioned before how I was told I wouldn't be here long. But then, uh, after a few years here, I felt I was not getting the breaks I should, so I decided to take my summers and go to Cornell and get my master's degree, which is what I did.

Those days, in extension school, the, uh, faculty was paid according to the number of students in his class. The college kept, uh, 15% of the income from, for the administration and the faculty member got the rest. Well, I taught the 00:25:00botany in regular college sessions, but my boss insisted on teaching the botany during the summertime because this was a big class. So, the last summer I taught, uh, under him, I made some 90 dollars and he made some 900 dollars. When I came back with a master's degree in 1927, he took a sabbatical and then resigned. And, uh, Dr. Haas told me that, uh, I would be in charge until further notice.

Then, I waited a while (chuckle). The college had had an experience. They had brought in a man to head the chemistry department, Dr. Wieweg. Everybody knew that chemistry wasn't what it should be and he was told to build up the department. And he just insisted on everything right away. And the first year, he flunked some 80% of the students. So, eh, instead of working up gradually, you see. So, he only lasted two years, which, then Mr. Stedman and Dr. Brennan came.

So, I went to Dr. Haas, finally, and I said, "Well, now, you just had a bad 00:26:00experience by bringing this stranger. How about giving a hometown boy a chance (laughs) at the department?"

Said, "Alright. You can go and get your degree and you can have it."

Well, I said, "If the college gives me a sabbatical, I'll go and get it."

"Alright, you can have it next year."

Well, I said, "I don't think that would be too good because, after all, have to bring a new man in"--at time there were just two in the department--"and I should be around at least a year till this man gets acclimated."

He said, "Alright, you can have it the next year." So, (laughs), I got it the next year and went up to Cornell and got my Ph.D. degree. And then, of course, uh, I survived all these years.

KVE: Oh, indeed. And we're lucky you came back instead of leaving like the other two.

JS: And, uh, as a student of Muhlenberg, of course, I was here two years, I played football, basketball and, because of my experience and a lot of reading I had done, I could still do good work here as a student and I guess that was--attributed to the fact that I was invited to become a member of the staff.

Now you were talking about the Pennsylvania Dutch, I, of course, couldn't deny my ancestry if I changed my name. But a peculiar incident in class one time, uh, I started lecturing and talking and a student in class laughed. Of course, I soon realized what he was laughing at. So, I asked him a question and made him 00:28:00get up and explain it. And he happened to be from Brooklyn so that took care of it.

KVE: Yes, that's very interesting.

Doc, you've been a strong faculty member, a department head, a committee man, certainly far longer than I've known the college. Could you tell us what the faculty was like when you came in 1921, how it's changed, who were some of your friends and not so good friends in the faculty were?

JS: Well, in 1921, the faculty consisted of 16 people plus athletic director. And, at that time, also, as many people may not know, there was a professor of military sciences.

KVE: Oh, I didn't know that. No.

JS: And, er, uh, of course, the examining physician. Well, during the first world war, there was a military unit on the campus,

KVE: Down in the, uh, in the fairgrounds was it stationed?

JS: Well, it, it, it, no, it was actually on the campus.

KVE: I see. Alright.

JS: I guess it was called SATC, or something like that, sort of like ROTC and there was a professor of military science on the campus here. The person you might say who really (chuckles) ran the college was Oscar Bernheim.

KVE: I've heard that.

JS: He was treasurer. He was secretary. He was Register. He was in charge of the scholarships. He ran the college bookstore. And, uh, uh, the stories told by the somebody, uh, bringing somebody for admission, he'd ask, "Is there room in the dormitory?"

"Yes?"

"OK, take him."

JS: Then, of course, Dr. Haas, the, uh, president. He was a very scholarly individual. And he taught the philosophy. His class was known as the cheering section because sometimes he would get very excited and get up and some student would jump up and say, "Three cheers for Haas." (laughter) The class would give his three cheers.

And, uh a couple, couple of peculiar incidents--he used to just sit on the edge of his chair and the chair had a hollow in the seat. And one time, he was late coming to class and one of the students went and got a tumbler of water and poured it in the hollow of the seat. And he came in and sat on the edge, and he got excited, got up, and sat down [unclear] it soaked through. [laughter]

And, as I said, he taught philosophy and, uh, he was such a scholarly person, he 00:29:00just talked over the heads of the students. Had students, students had difficulty. He used his own text which I didn't understand when I read it. And, 'bout the only way the students could pass the course, was to do a little cribbing. And one time, he caught a student using the textbook and he came back to Dr. Horn, who was the dean then, and said, "He's out, he's out. He's out."

Dr. Horn said, "Who's out?"

Says, "I don't know his name but he always sits in the same seat and I'll get him next time."

[laughter]

The word got around and he didn't sit in the same seat--never did find out who it was.

KVE: [Laughing]. There are advantages to a small college. The word gets around. [tower chimes in background]

JS: [tower chimes in background] And one time, he expelled eight football players because they played football on a Sunday up in Reading.

KVE: Really? Do you have any idea when that was, Doc?

JS: Nah, it was in the 20s. Uh, but it was even after the football season here was over. But they played and students from other colleges played there and they were paid something like five dollars, something like that, for the game. But he expelled them.

Some years later, uh, Mrs. Shankweiler and I were flying out to, uh, New Mexico to visit a son. The plane stopped at Kansas City and I got off the plane to tour the terminal, man walks up to me and says, "Are you Dr. Shankweiler?"

Yes, I'm Dr. Shankweiler.

"Well," he said, "you did me a big favor one time. I guess you don't remember it."

It was one of these expelled students. So, he told me when he was expelled here, he went to Albright and wanted to take an anatomy course there but didn't have a cat specimen. He had to get his own specimen. So, he came back here and asked me could he buy one here. I said, no you can't buy, I'll give you one. So, he finished at Albright. He went out to Pittsburgh, got his Ph.D. degree. And, at that time, uh, when he met me there, he was head of the anatomy department at Kirksville Osteology School.

I came back and told them I just met one of your no-good football players. [laughter]

And, uh, Dr. Ettinger was the Dean. And Dr. Wackernagel was Professor of Modern Language and Literature. And students in those days were full of tricks, as they are today. There's one thing in his class, students would, someone would give a signal, and they all dropped their books on the floor.

And Reverend Bowman, head of Mathematics and Astronomy, uh, he'd give a quiz in mathematics. And the students, uh, when they had a chance would drop a copy of quiz out the window. Somebody outside picked it up, answered the questions, and 00:31:00would sneak in the hall and give them.

Dr. Horn, of course, professor of Greek Languages and Literature. Dr. Fritsch, Acting Chaplain, Assistant Professor of Modern Languages, and instructor in the Bible. And he was really a fundamentalist. Uh, he'd play the book on evolution and then he'd bring it to me to read, wanted my opinion of it. But, I don't know how many students would come to me. In biology, of course, we talk evolution and he'd deny it, you know. And, they'd ask, where are we, what is this? I said, well, I said, just take a time, you'll uh, strike a happy medium sometime.

And then, uh, Dr. Bailey, of course, who was my boss, he was very popular cause he was here some 15 years and never flunked a student. So, he was --(chuckle)

Simpson, Librarian. Library at that time was a row in the second floor of the administration building. At that time, there was no, uh, exit at the east end of the building, uh, of the Ettinger building. And this room ran across the whole, whole place.

And, uh, Reverend Brown uh, Dr. Brown, head of Romance, uh, Languages, and, uh, 00:33:00the, Mr. Fasig, Professor of Chemistry and Physics, (chuckled). I took organic chemistry under him. Dr. Wills, over in Long Island, who was played center on the football team, and I were the only ones who did all experiments in organic lab. The other students would sit in his office and tell football and when we were finished with the experiment, we had to put the product in a small glass tube and turn it in. It would indicate that we had performed the experiment. The other students would come in when we were finished and take some of our product, put it in a glass tube, or go down in the stock room and get some of the product 00:34:00and put it into the glass tube (laughs). Uh, that was, of course, one reason why they wanted somebody to--

KVE: Right, he never knew or cared about things like that.

JS: No, [silence] Then, Howard Marks, who is only person alive who was on faculty at that time, was the instructor of music. And, Isaac Miles Wright, in charge of the extension school, Professor of Philosophy and Pedagogy. And Guerney Afflerbach, was an instructor in chemistry and physics. Harry Cressman, who just died, instructor of history and sociology. Then there was the Fred Worsinger who was the instructor whom I replaced in 1921. And William Ritter was 00:35:00the athletic director, coach of football and basketball. Those days you didn't have a coach for each sport. So, I guess you had something to ask me?

KVE: Well, yes, there's one more thing about the faculty I'd like to ask. These are people from the earlier part of your time at Muhlenberg. But, now, uh, how about in the fifties? There was a group of you who, I believe, really set the tone and decided curriculum and, uh, policies of various kinds. Who were those people with whom you worked so closely?

JS: Well, it was, uh, Dr. Brown, Dr. Brendes, uh, Dr. Sarkin, uh, (KVE prompting JS) Dr. Swain, Professor Deck, [inaudible].

KVE: It seems to me I've heard you talk about, uh, those people as the ones who, once they had decided on something, (chuckled) managed usually to get it through.

JS: Yes. Yes, they were, uh, those days, they were the older people, you might say, come through with things pretty well. The younger people didn't have so much to say.

KVE: It's interesting in retrospect, isn't it? Yes.

JS: Faculty meetings--we just had a few faculty meetings a year.

KVE: Uh, huh. I've heard when one of you got up to speak about an issue, that tended to settle the issue.

JS: Yes, uh, huh.

KVE: There's another side, of course, to your activities that are specifically college oriented and that has to do with the students. You've already mentioned one of the most brilliant students, Clark Wescoe. What other students, out of your, uh, very highly-developed and skillfully maintained department would you like to mention?

JS: Well, I sort of decided that I better not mention too many there because of the fact that I'd forget some and if this were heard, well, that it'd be mean, that there'd be reactions.

KVE: That is a point.

JS: Of course, nobody can blame me for mentioning Dr. Wescoe.

KVE: True.

JS: Uh, who, of course, was an outstanding student here and later on, came to be, well, went to Cornell Medical School and then, uh, Head of Pharmacology Department at Kansas Medical School, then Dean, and then Chancellor.

Then, uh, one other person, was this Mary Swider which I mentioned because of the fact that I think she was the first girl to finish here and go to medical school and who is now, uh, on the staff at Yale Medical School and [practices?] only as Regents Committee. And, just recently, won a thousand-dollar foundation grant [unclear].

And one other person that I thought was worthwhile mentioning was a Dr. William Kuhns, who in his senior year, was a good student, came to my office and said, "Doc, I don't have the personality to be a practicing physician." Now this was 00:38:00something else.

KVE: Uh, huh, Self analysis. Yep.

JS: So, he went over to Lehigh. Got his master's degree. Then he went down to Johns Hopkins Medical and finished there. But all the time, he has been in research. He was down there at Johns Hopkins when this blood bank business started. And he was active in that. In fact, he was, been in that phase of work ever since. He's now up at NYU Medical School. And some time, I wrote him and he sent me some 40 reprints of publications. [unclear] already collaborated with, so--that was so unusual for the man to realize that he didn't have the 00:39:00personality to be a physician. Uh, so, outside of those, I've decided (KV interrupts) I'd mention--

KVE: I can see a very wise man, right? What you've outlined for us, so far, would be enough to keep two or three professors busy, but we've only begun to touch the activities you've actually been involved with in the years you've been at Muhlenberg.

It seems to me that you've been deeply involved with two things that have made Muhlenberg nationally known. One we've, you've covered well with the pre-medical club and its students and their successes in medical school. The other is athletics. Before I came, just before I came, Muhlenberg was nationally known in 00:40:00the athletics world. I know that you were the chairman of athletics committee, for a while. Your picture hangs in Memorial Hall Union where all the athletes can see and be inspired. It's intriguing that both of these areas should have had you as a dominant figure in them. Could you tell us about the athletics committee in the forties, I suppose it was, wasn't it?

JS: Yes. Well, in athletics, of course, I really started tennis as an official sport at the college here, in 1934. While students informally had tennis, it was not recognized--

KVE: Yes, it was just a recreation.

JS: I started it in '34 and uh, actually coached from 1934 to 1958. And, yes, as you said, I was chairman of athletic committee from 1948 to 1961. And, uh, during that period, of course, we had the outstanding basketball teams--and, of course we had

KVE: Right. I know this through my husband.

JS: and, of course we had sports over here, we had football, outstanding football team. Uh, and, uh, of course, there were ups and downs in it. And one year, I had an undefeated tennis team and I had a lot of fun in coaching the tennis because I used to play the boys. I used to put up a cup for the college 00:41:00championship. But in order to win the cup, the student who won had to play me. [laughter]. I only ever had one who beat me. [laughter]

KVE: Is that so?

JS: Yeah, but, I always gave them the cup anyhow. And I'd say well that's just to show that you're not as good as you think you are.

KVE: I suppose you never played Dr. Jensen, did you?

JS: No.

KVE: Just too great an age disparity. What a pity.

JS: I quit tennis by that time.

KVE: That would have been a match to watch. Well, in addition to the athletics, 00:42:00uh, one of things that everyone knows about is your skill in photography and the use you put it to in conveying Muhlenberg life and in making records for the college of what happened. Could you tell us a bit about that?

JS: Well, uh, Dr. Bailey, who's head of the department, when I joined the faculty, taught a course in photography. And when he left, of course, the students were anxious to have the course continue, so I attempted it. Of course, I had to start from scratch and stayed a couple of weeks ahead of the students, organizing the course. And, well, I taught that course until '64 when I retired and the course was dropped.

It was a course, uh, that, well, I felt a course like that, that students could elect something in which they were really interested and in which they could use in their lifetime. And, uh, actually a man who's, uh, head of the photography department at the Morning Call papers started his photography in this course. Some of the students went to professional photography school after they finished here and are in professional photography work.

I took the student pictures for the ID cards for years and, uh, for some years did practically all the college photography.

KVE: I've seen a lot of examples of your work.

JS: All the group pictures for the Ciarla, the yearbook, uh, practically all the pictures in there except for the individual portraits. Uh, and, of course, football movies since 1937 to the present time. Later on, also, the uh, home basketball games. I made copies of the student records, if they wanted transcript to send out, for years. And, then, uh, later on, uh, microfilmed all the students' records from '35, 1935 on up. And then every year when the senior records were completed, I microfilmed them. I microfilmed the financial records for a period of seven years, and, then, uh, every year when the financial year 00:43:00was uh, completed. That, I guess that hasn't been done since I retired.

Uh, in '41, '42, I made eight reels of color film of student life, which covered everything from matriculation to graduation. Uh, the movies of the theater program and, for years, uh, took moving pictures of the baccalaureate commencement programs and Alumni Day activities

KVE: The story of that represents a phenomenal amount of work. I don't see how you could ever put it with the rest. One interesting little detail is that in that last cabinet just across the room from us is the actual bottle in a case that Mrs. Levering Tyson used to name, uh, the S.S. Muhlenberg Victory. And I believe you have some film of that event, haven't you?

JS: I have, I have reels of that.

KVE: It's an intriguing combination of elements. One last item of your non-professorial activities has to do with one segment of your community activities, I believe particularly during the war. You were involved deeply with the Red Cross and won the American Red Cross Award, for years.

JS: Yes, I was a first aid instructor for the Red Cross during the war. And 00:45:00during the war, the students here had to take the first aid course instead of their physical education. And, uh, myself and Mr. Ritter were the only people qualified to teach this course. But, they brought in some doctors, uh, to help in the course because this involved all the students. And while the doctors knew first aid, this had to be taught the way the Red Cross wanted it. And I had a doctor helping me in the practical work. He'd come to me, asking me how, now how is this to be done. Well, this results that in the final examinations, then, uh, a large percentage of the students flunked it. And, uh, the next year I did practically nothing but teach the first aid because these people had, had to 00:46:00repeat it. And, of course, I also taught the civilian classes. And, as you said, I got a citation. It reads, "For meritorious personal service in behalf of the nation, the armed forces and suffering humanity in the second World War." Signed by President Harry Truman.

KVE: How very interesting. Was this '46? '45? '46? Yeah,

JS: Yes. Then later on, I was the instructor trainer for this district for the Red Cross. I had to instruct and pass all people who wanted to be first aid.

KVE: Clearly, you've learned how to teach.

JS: Yes-instructors.

KVE: Doc, you've had an extraordinary opportunity to work with a number of presidents and deans at Muhlenberg, many of whom are names, but, uh, often are viv, vivid personalities, as well as names to it. Could you give us rundown of some of the presidents and deans, these eminent characters, with whom you've worked over the years?

JS: Well, the presidents I worked with, of course, started with Dr. Haas. Then, Dr. Horn was acting president for a year. Then came Dr. Tyson and after he resigned, there was a committee which was composed of Baumer, George Baumer, who was the president of the board, Dean Mercer, and Howard McGregor. Those men were appointed by the Board of Trustees.

KVE: A very curious situation.

JS: Then, there was Dr. Gress and there was a death who were elected by the faculty. They served for a year. Then, uh, Dr. Gress was acting, uh, president. Then came Dr. Seegers and then Dr. Jensen. He, of course, was the one who told me that I was finished.

KVE: Well, he told everyone that when you attained a certain age.

JS: [unclear] 1964. For deans, uh, Dr. Ettinger, Dr. Horn, Dr. Mercer, Dr. Richards, Dr. Marsh, Dr. Poldrick, and, uh, Dean Secor.

KVE: Who sits with us silently at this table.

No particular reminisces of these or would they have or would they be so long as to be impossible?

JS: Yes, I guess [unclear].

KVE: Alright. Now, I want to go back, uh, and pick up something I forgot to mention before. The museum in the biology building is, uh, of unusual and distinctive quality. Would you tell us a little about that, please?

JS: Well, the, again, I can't think of the year, but it was in the 30s, early 30s. The college had an open house and they asked me to arrange an exhibit. There's a big room on the third floor of the science building. Uh, all the bird specimens and everything were just on the floor, no cases or nothing. And, uh, 00:49:00the birds were not catalogued, nothing.

After I became head, I spent a few years doing nothing but, uh, cataloguing material. Then, the college had this open house and they asked me to arrange a museum. I said, "How can I arrange? I have no cases. I have no tables?"

"Well, we'll get you tables."

I said, "Alright, why don't you just get some nice, uh, foot-wide boards and some trestles and I can arrange and I will cover them and nobody can see a difference?"

"No, we'll, we'll rent tables."

So, they went to these churches in town and, uh, rented tables, uh, which they use for these church suppers and support. So, I set it up.

The first time they came in, "Well, now we'll have to keep it that way."

"That's fine," I said. "They're rented tables."

"We'll buy the tables."

Said, "These churches wont' sell these tables unless you pay them what it costs to replace them." So, I had to tear the whole thing down, send these tables back. Then, they got the boards and these trestles, you know, and, uh, set it up again.

And the, there was a geology room in the second floor of the science building with cases that were not being used. I got those to the third floor to put all birds in and arranged it.

And, uh, teachers in the public schools from Allentown, Catasauqua, Pheasant Hill, uh, brought in, uh, students, uh, to go through the museum and, uh, they'd make a project out it, particularly with the birds. Uh, they wanted us to show particular birds, you know, and then they'd make the students, uh, write papers about it. In fact, it got so bad, we had to set a limit because we failed to--they brought in students who were too young to really appreciate things.

Then, of course, uh, under Dr. Jensen, the museum was, uh, eliminated up there. The [tiers?] were put in the basement here and in the student union. And, now, of course, they have the museum over there, which, finally, I guess, is being completed. Dr. Trainer has started work on his phase of the project with the birds.

KVE: I've looked through the locked doors in the new building. I've never actually got inside to see what's happening. But it will develop.

JS: But, they can't begin to show the [tiers?] that are here. If they'd want to show everything here in museum style, they could use whole building.

KVE: Well, they can have a series of exhibitions. Most museums really do have to do that. It is a remarkable collection, however, and I know it is primarily due to you.

JS: Well, the bird collection here is one of the most representative collections there is. Now--oh, there are places that have more birds, but, uh, here, there are just a few birds from here all over the world. And, uh, it is very representative collection. There are over 26,000 bird specimens.

KVE: Is that so? I didn't know that.

JS: There's a big seashell collection, a lot of insects, uh, things like that. So, they can put up a good exhibition.

KVE: Very respectable exhibition. Doc, after this formidable record of your 00:52:00experiences and activities and contributions involving Muhlenberg College, it's not difficult to see why there's a John V. Shankweiler Biology Building. It sounds more like the record of three lives than of one, as we listen to it. Thank you for sharing with us the story of your doings and your interests in the last half century.

JS: Thank you.

END AUDIO FILE