Aoife Ward, May 7, 2022

INTERVIEW WITH AOIFE WARD

MAY 7, 2022

NADIA BUTLER: And we are live. My name is Nadia Butler, and I am here today with

Aoife Ward, to talk about her life and experiences and LGBT organizations in the

Lehigh Valley, as a part of the Lehigh Valley LGBT Community Oral History

Project. Our project has funding from the ACLS. We are meeting on location today

on May 7th, 2022. Thank you so much for your willingness to speak with us today.

To start, can you please state your full name and spell it for me?

AOIFE WARD: Certainly it's Aoife Maeve Ward. It's spelled A-O-I-F-E. The middle

name, Maeve, M-A-E-V-E, Ward, W-A-R-D.

NB: Will you please share your birthdate?

AW: It's October 11, 1976.

NB: Do you consent to 00:01:00this interview today?

AW: I do consent to this interview.

NB: Do you consent to having this interview being transcribed, digitized and

made publicly available online and searchable formats?

AW: Absolutely.

NB: Do you consent to the LGBT archive using your interview for educational

purposes and other formats, including films, articles, websites, presentations,

and other formats?

AW: Absolutely, yeah.

NB: Do you understand that you will have 30 days after the electronic delivery

of the transcript to review the interview, identify any parts you would like to

delete and or withdraw the interview from the project?

AW: Yes I do.

Excellent. Well then, let's start.

AW: Okay.

NB: To begin, would you start by telling us about the early years of your life?

Could you describe your childhood for us, including where you were born?

AW: Sure, so I was born in a hospital in Brooklyn and raised in Long Island, New 00:02:00York. Both my parents were Irish immigrants. My father was an investment banker

from Dublin originally. Trained as a veterinarian, but walked in, basically got

a job on Wall Street one summer and came back and started his version of the

American Dream. My mother was from a farming family outside of Dublin, outside

of Wicklow. Seven sisters, her grandmother was an amazing woman who raised them

all on her own on a small farm. And also fought in the Irish revolution. So,

interesting family history.

My mother was a nurse in the U.S. And they raised me and my sister Margaret, who

is eight years older in Long Island. My mother died later when I was nine. I

knew I was transgender at about four years old. But unfortunately, there was a

lengthy divorce, lot of abuse in the home, a lot 00:03:00of kind of, what do you call

it? What was going on inside the home did not reflect the outward appearance of

this perfect American family starting to live in their American Dream.

So my only times to express my gender was when it was just me and my mom. And

then when dad got home, that was all cut off or if my grandma caught me. So, my

gender was expressed very much in my private time with my mother and my private

time with myself. And there wasn't much time or availability to express my

emotions and my needs in my home. Especially in Long Island in that -- those

years because it would have been the early 80's. So, in '85, my mother finally

died after a lengthy divorce, a lot happens in that time frame. A lot of people

in and out of my home, lawyers, police, until we finally kind of 00:04:00got away from

my father.

Well when she died, my father ended up raising me and my sister for about a

year, but she was at high school age, so she ended up kind of being kicked out

of the house. And then he raised me as a single father, nannies and so forth,

and you know, he had money, so he was able to do things, but he didn't really

have time for a child or the patience. And again, so my gender identity was

completely suppressed. In later life, around high school and middle school when

I was finally outside of Catholic school systems, because I was being raised

Irish Catholic, I got more time to think about and express my gender identity

throughout high school, when my father remarried and that was, by then I was in

Ridgewood, New Jersey. And that was good.

Also a great deal of bullying and other things and trying to 00:05:00understand myself

in that current landscape where homosexuality was so frowned upon. But it was

still in the 80s and 90s, it was all on television, which I usually didn't have

access to. Well, cable television, like MTV and whatnot, but you get a peek of

what your life could be like at those ages, and you hope that you can express it

one day.

My father though, in a verbally abusive individual with me mainly, you know,

threats of military school and that type of thing, was somewhat more

understanding in the aspect of me needing to understand my culture, European

culture, though not necessarily American 00:06:00culture. So, I did get chances to visit

Ireland to stay with family and get away from him [laughs].

By the time I was out of high school, I had already kind of been secretly

visiting the village and going downtown to Kelsey. And at a young age, trying to

see where I would fit in on a gay scene if it would happen. No real boyfriends.

Then I had worked through high school, so I ended up -- since I have a European

citizenship as well as US citizenship, I had a year in Spain, which my father

helped fund, which was an amazing privilege to have. Learn the Spanish language,

learn the culture. And it was especially interesting because sexuality was a big

deal in restoring my gender identity. But for the most part, they were kind of

experiencing a revolution as their dictator Francisco Franco had finally passed.

And they were allowed to become their own country really without a dictator.

So, the youth and the people I 00:07:00met there were incredible, they were supportive.

They understood me, questioning my gender identity, and did what they could. But

still it was a very, I guess a boy mode lifestyle, because it is a very Catholic

country as well. Finally, when I came back to the U.S., started trying to go to

college down in Middlesex Community College next to Rutgers. And there like I

met my first boyfriend, who was going to Rutgers, I met my musician friends, I

started doing photography. My own storytelling, songwriting and being in bands

kind of started and things were a little more accepting. Though again, access to

any queer community, didn't really seem like it was possible. There was no

places to go except coffee shops.

The art scene was probably my best friend in terms of being 00:08:00accepted, but

meeting people was difficult. So, I was primarily dating men for most of that

part of my life, which became more and more difficult because of my femininity,

my history of domestic violence, my lack of trust and a lot of psychological

issues that I hadn't really had time to work out. So that's pretty much the

early part into my teens, I'm 45 years old. So I've had a lot of good life

experiences, I think. I hope that answers your question. But I've always put it

in the frame of, I've transitioned multiple lives at times in my life. I've

transitioned out of the fear that there's always going to be violence and things

around me. I still continue to do that. I ended up marrying a woman for about 12 years.

Working in a medical device 00:09:00corporation, playing in bands, owning a home, during

the other American Dream, the heterosexual American Dream. And as a bisexual, I

guess throughout my life, my gender identity was always on the back burner.

Fitting in was always a priority. Feeling safe was always a priority that I

couldn't tell people about. Cross dressing the whole time in private, afraid not

knowing how people would take it or my family.

Even though I had come out to my father as homosexual, that was a whole ordeal,

but he was accepting. But would never have been accepting of transgender. Just

because of how that was viewed in New York, was that we were all streetwalkers,

that we were troublemakers. That we only brought pain and disgrace to a Catholic

family, because their boy, had abandoned them and their 00:10:00faith. So, it's always

in the back of your head along with the violence growing up. Well, anyway, in my

marriage it was a good marriage for a time until symptom of yeah, sorry.

NB: So, what year did you get married in?

AW: So I was married, my goodness, [laughs]. So this --I would have been around

32 at that point in time. So, the exact year is evading me right now. But that

was in New Brunswick, I was in New Brunswick, New Jersey by that point in time.

So, the marriage went well, but my sexuality was always never really allowed to

be discussed. Because now I'm in a committed relationship, I've married my best

friend basically.

So anytime I would bring up that past, or queer 00:11:00concepts, or wanting to go do

drag or -- it was always, no, just not, no. Even though a lot of my friends and

our friend group had known me as the gay boy or the queer boy. So, toward the

end of our relationship is when -- and it's something I talk about a lot, is

mental health, because it's just so vital.

Especially as a queer kid growing up, you don't get -- you get misdiagnosed, I

was misdiagnosed my whole life. So not knowing that I had complex post-traumatic

stress, that was exhibiting itself in different ways in taking on, and dropping

addictions like alcoholism, or excessive drug use of whatever kind, was making

it very difficult to operate on a daily basis, maintain my job, several attempts 00:12:00at rehab and things along those lines.

Eventually I got the trauma diagnosis and that kind of set me on the right path.

And did men's trauma outpatient groups about three times after several different

psychiatric hospitalizations. Just because the symptoms are pulling you in

multiple directions and you really -- you're never able to maintain a sense of

inner stability, a sense of inner healing. Finally, through the men's trauma

group, I was able to start my transition emotionally with a really good

therapist. And there wasn't really a discussion about my gender at all. It was

discussion about how I was dealing with my trauma symptoms and allowing myself

to live as a person I want to. And that's kind of where the past five years of

my journey have started. And we're all -- throughout that though,

I've always had some level 00:13:00of activism going on in my life, usually attending

things, reading the literature. But I mean we'll probably talk about that later. [laughs].

NB: We will. One of the things you mentioned was your mother and it sounded like

you were very close to her.

AW: Yes, yeah, definitely. She was definitely an incredible force in both me and

my sister's life. Very intelligent, a lover of nature, having grown up on farm

and animals. Also a fair amount of theatrical when she needed to be, a fair

amount of sarcasm and humor. But she was living in a time in society where, she

still couldn't have a credit card in the 80s. Her divorce was the biggest shame

to bring on any family. Even from my 00:14:00grandmother, who had gone through similar things.

During the divorce, , we were homeless for a minute together. She, me and my

sister, and nobody would support us. All the food resources were cut off. But

the things she had done to maintain the kind of illusion of wealth or whatever

it was to get that American Dream were lavish parties for all the executives,

croquet on the lawn like some magical fairytale in England or Ireland, that

everyone seemed to want to be living in the late 70s, early 80's. And there was

no time for kids, but the little time she had, she did spend with us. She did

stuff in the garden, she made sure my diet was good, that I had laughter and

fun, but at the same time she kind of had to whisk me in my 00:15:00sister way out of

view after the adults needed to get together. Which was very Great Gatsbyesque

in some way, but also wonderful to see her dressed up and entertaining and

people playing cards or laughing. It was something I was lucky to witness but it

was also on the other side of it, because once the parties would end it was

violence. It was hiding down next to my Atari or TV, it was me standing between

my parents trying to stop the blows, my sister pulling me away. So, the real

legacy in the home was unfortunately one of violence, and even in adulthood with

a remarriage, we could never discuss these things, oh well your parent loves

you, but there's that history. I had to move on to forgiveness. Of all the

things that happened to the home, but

I don't think my sister ever 00:16:00will and I don't blame her. She was older, she knew

what was going on, whereas I basically blocked out a lot. So that's why these

things come up later in life, right? They come up when things are going good,

you would think, but something's not matching and for me it was my gender

identity. And honestly, I can say that once I did transition, I didn't have to

take my psychiatric medications anymore.

I mean everything started to match like overnight almost it felt like, that I

can move forward and work on the things I needed to work on to be my truest

self. The mother that I've always felt that I am even though it's two other

people and it's not children. The support network that's a walking judgment free

zone whatever it takes, to live as ourselves, it's just the most important thing

to me.And I think my mother understood that, my sister knew she understood 00:17:00 that,

but it just wasn't the time for us as a queer kid wasn't for me at least.

NB: Something else you've mentioned a few times is kind of the place of faith in

your childhood. Would you be willing to talk a little bit about what it was like

for you to grow up as a young closeted transwoman during the 70s and 80s and how

the Catholic Church and the kinds of impact it had on you and your sister?

AW: Yeah certainly. Well, yeah, it was an interesting time, there was so much

going on with the AIDS crisis that even at 10 years old I was aware of it.

Luckily my sister is a journalist. So even after getting out of la la land of

Long Island, she 00:18:00was fiercely looking for information almost the same way she

had to look for information in the home to see how to help ourselves. Total

researcher. My sister just always 20 questions everything that's going on in

your life and it's lovely though because you get to know it's out of the place

of concern. But growing up in there and also being left in Ireland with an

auntie and having my grandmother on my father's side, take me to 3 hour masses

where it's hellfire and brimstone and God is coming down on the sexual. In the

news, God is coming down the homosexuals. Transgender wasn't even really talked

about, I didn't even know what transgender was until maybe eight years ago. So,

the wording of things in the media did end the loss of my mother.

Definitely it was 00:19:00scary because one, the way my remaining parent, my father was,

there was no time to mourn. You're not allowed. No emotion, I'm uncomfortable

with emotion was the finished reaction. Literally the day of her funeral, you're

a big boy now all this type of things. And the only people who were there for

that support were her sisters, and he immediately pushed them all away.

So my sister was the last remaining one and he pushed her away. But the

information that I did see on the news etc. and the conversations I could have

with my sister were key for me to understand what was going on especially --

they had happened when I was too young, but the AIDS crisis protests you know

where they lie down in the catholic church in New York City. And protesters

dying basically in play on the floor and getting dragged out 00:20:00was definitely

heavy in my mind.

The fact that my sister's gay friends, because she was now in college, were

dying left and right and their activism was going strong until the day they died

a lot of them. And just being familiar with those stories like that my family

history story of the kind of revolution stuff that my grandmother had to do

definitely instilled in me a mindset for fighting for a liberation of queer

identities. Which even though that wasn't really in the Catholic church in

Ireland or Irish Catholic mentality in the U.S., it was definitely a part of our

history and something that now, if you look at that country, it's very much they

passed marriage equality before we did. 00:21:00All with the help of similar types of activism that have been taking place in

here in the 80s and into the 90s. But then when I finally, without my mother,

grew up trying to understand my femininity. It was a different time yet again

when I was of age, the AIDS crisis was still the most terrifying thing and the

thought of having a partner or possibly as a transfem from passing on the virus

just I cut that out of my life because it was just so terrifying.

Every boyfriend you're just like, oh I'm gonna test it again, it's just so much

fear. And really, I was seeing a real separation of, after the death of a lot of

great leaders, just the kind of the death of the social scene, the queer social 00:22:00scene, the closing of clubs. Obviously, a lot of clubs I couldn't go to, we're

still going on, it was really more everyone, but those local spaces were gone

down in New Brunswick.

So, I threw myself into the music scene with very cute few queer personalities,

but a few. So, it kind of just became its own mix of everyone and all cultures

and all ideas that were supportive, which was its own joy, its own space that

you made like you make a queer space your own. And finding that chosen family,

if they're out there, there's always a challenge but it happens here and there.

NB: So, it sounds like you were in New Brunswick involved in the music scene and

at the same time, you 00:23:00were going into New York city on the weekends. Can you

talk a little bit about kind of that period for us and its significance for your

development and what it was like to be going into New York at that time, where

you meeting other trans women or not really?

AW: So yeah, that's always a tough one. As a transfem myself who was always in

boy mode and also someone who having grown up with abuse and then the allure of

New York was always there, was this big thing. But I always -- I guess I'm more

-- I prefer the country or something or just small cities or college towns

compared to the big city because of the way my trauma kind of expresses itself,

like rejection, this sensitive 00:24:00dysphoria, things like that.

And though I'm very capable of traveling at any rate in New York City and

getting around safely, my earliest years were actually not hanging down there.

They were hanging up in Harlem, going to see jazz early on with the girlfriends,

getting to learn about that scene in small clubs there. But it also wasn't the

safest time and a lot of parts lower than the 90s on Broadway streetwise. And

then the train ride to go down to the village, you didn't really know anyone and

you weren't really a New Yorker anymore because you're coming from New Jersey,

so you're just an out-of-towner.

So, what happens is you go into these clubs and if you don't immediately code

switch to whatever is cool or whatever people are talking about, because I'm a

little rock and roll girl, if I'm not into Madonna or this artist or whatever,

I'm not necessarily going to fit in, not having set myself 00:25:00up in New York.

Because the way that city works is like the cool things that happen is what

everyone is following for the most part and they all know each other and they're

all on the same scene.

So emotionally it made it difficult. I was never really a fan especially with

the AIDS crisis of the kind of hook up culture that goes along with being gay, a

gay male. And so basically I would always kind of just kind of bring myself back

to my New Brunswick area and see if I could find a group of friends. I had a

boyfriend for a long period of time and I know one of the big events we went to

was multiple marches were happening around the murder of Matthew Shepard, which

is very critical time and kind of really opening up everyone's eyes again.

Because it had been a bunch of years since the AIDS crisis was still going on

really, but not in the same 00:26:00way as when all these people are dying, and nobody

was helping.

So those types of activities and other ways that I could get informed and get

involved with the types of activity I do, but really my true activism didn't

start to come back up until in my mid 30s when I wasn't really going to the city

anymore except to see music concerts and things like that. I hope that answers

your question. It was definitely an interesting time that I think it's easy to

glorify the queer scene, but as a transgender it's never been all rainbows for

me, and I've come to terms of that. We can't always fit in, we can't always like

everybody, can't always feel safe everywhere.

And in a big city there's that crushing 00:27:00pressure to be seen and when you don't

have the money and the resources and the support around you -- the best place

for me has always been the local pride center, which there was one in New

Brunswick. But I guess I never had the wherewithal to talk it stop into the New

York City ones, although I meet girls and people going out and stuff, but they

always had their own things to do and I'd always have to get back and go work or

something at a restaurant or photography or whatever I was doing. [laughs]

NB: Can you talk a little bit about that LGBT Center in New Brunswick?

AW: Sure.

NB: How old were you when you discovered it?

AW: So, I probably discovered that around 21. Yep, it was very small, and they

had some great events here and there. But it always seemed like it was never

able to kind of get 00:28:00out of the building, it's there for the support and that

support community was important but people have to go about living their own

lives. And really a lot of the activity then seemed to be going on more around

college campuses like Rutgers had its own, which is specifically for Rutgers

students, and so they're their own group of cultures.

There's always kind of on the fringe, and your identity gets lost when you're in

the mix with everybody else and you don't have those consistent queer friends or

when you're dating, and there's no one quite like you because you're too rock

and roll, you're not into what's cool. Cultural evolutions in this country

especially around the queer scene there pretty fast, and people kind of raise

themselves up with it which I applaud but a lot of people get lost in the mix too.

We're seeing that I think today, as well as were way more 00:29:00insular and stuck in

our online communities which are also good. But the in-person stuff is what I

always grew up around, so I'm always gonna gravitate toward. But, I honestly

can't say for most of that time I had many trans identifying friends. Didn't

until it transitioned. And that's always been upsetting but it's been so great

to get in and learn really what's going on, especially in the new age of it and

see what people -- what I was doing my 20's is different, but what they're doing

now is just exactly what I'm doing now.

So about supporting younger people so that they have these spaces and that's my

goal in the next couple of years to find those spaces and find those spaces to

put people together. Because there's one thing I've known as a trans person is,

going to shows or done drag on 00:30:00occasion, my body is the greatest revolution.

That walking freely as myself is the main thing that I've always had in the back

of my head. How wonderful it would be, and then to finally do that thing, to be

yourself unashamedly, is just the biggest inspiration to watch other people

doing that same path too. Yeah. [LAUGH]

NB: Yeah. So, can you talk for us a little bit about your transition and coming

into your womanhood? Can you talk about -- was there a single event which was

kind of a catalyst for that? Was it multiple things?

AW: Well, it had been coming up quite a bit. And leading up to my father's death

about five years ago, I was 00:31:00already going through a divorce. I was facing a

layoff from a good company. I was gonna be selling my house because of the

divorce. And I was having major mental health stuff. My father had dementia for

a number of years, and he was kind of, that voice, that internal voice sort of

internalized homophobia, internalized transphobia.

That voice that was kind of constantly beating me up. And it never really

allowed me to mature into my womanhood because frankly, I don't think this is a

person that likes women very much, as evidenced by their behaviors throughout my

life. And pushing all the women in my family away. When my father died is when I

finally started transitioning. And you could think about how an individual can

have that much manipulative and psychological strength of somebody's identity.

I think it's 00:32:00evidence pretty clearly that my transition, I only allowed myself

to begin once he passed. I think that's a pretty common story I've learned from

doing my trans support groups. Like often we put our lives on hold because we do

love and care about the people, even our abusers. And we're taught that we're

the burden when we have so much more to offer and we're not a burden. So that

journey has been rough. Only recently starting to get better. I was homeless the

first year of my transition driving Uber, so sleeping in my car, crashing on

couches because I lost that job, and then lost my apartment that I had after

selling the house. And Uber just is Jersey city,

all New York City, even down to 00:33:00PA. Just,you can never catch up with a small car

payment and everything else and tolls and bad tips and all that. It was fun

though, because I got to kind of do the early awkward stages of my transition in

my car and meet fun people in my own stomping ground and have good

conversations. So, it was kind of an ideal job to be having with the money.

Just, I couldn't keep afloat on it and my confidence, and my trauma symptoms

were still really in this kind of hypervigilant state of like, I gotta run, I

gotta run, I gotta run. And to top that off because of the divorce and my mental

health, I was kind of losing all of my old friends, like they didn't know what

to do with me. They couldn't help. They wouldn't talk to me. They knew I was

going through stuff, but they weren't available on purpose.

[laughs] So one trans male friend did 00:34:00help me get down here and at least have a

place to stay. So, this is why I'm in this area, after that first year and

eventually my car got repossessed. [laughs] So now I had nowhere to live which

was my car. And so, I crashed in their place for a few months, tried to collect

myself on my own. No money and finally, I was terrified of this whole area, I

knew nothing about this area. I thought I was in the boondocks. I really didn't

know because I didn't have a car, I couldn't see things, and nobody's wanting to

support. But around those years is actually when I got involved with Eastern PA

Trans Equity Project. They saved my ass. [laughs] One, I found a huge group of

women like me and different from me from all walks of life.

And I started to find the 00:35:00resources that I needed to give me kind of a boost in

living as my full true self. One of oddly enough, the saving grace was just

going back to bartending, that was my first job in the area. And even though

there's a lot of passive aggression and microaggression as a transwoman behind

the bar, you can control it. You can kind of keep that distance because you're

responsible for people's liquor intake, and service, and whatnot. But that

allowed me to get introduced to people in the community, and then COVID hit. And

that was rough because then I had the feelings again which I've had throughout

my life with no family, no future. The world's falling apart, all the PTSD

symptoms coming up and I had some older friends start helping me a little

financially here and there. Without them, I'd be on the street.

So that 00:36:00was rough, and it still continues to be. All types of things and

blockades get in your way financially. Unemployed for about a year after the

bartending, and then bartending during COVID on and off as the restrictions were

lifted and it's really affecting the industry. And then finally, most recently I

got a decent job in my old field of medical devices. So, my life stability is a

little better. But through all those years without Eastern PA Trans Equity

Project-- I got food cards from them, I got assistance getting clothing from the

Allentown Women's Center for my return to work through a referral from them,

money towards my legal name change to make everything easier for me and living

my life as myself.

I had rent assistance for a period that was not even like 00:37:00eight months ago. And

then of course I volunteered my time during the pandemic to provide support for

other girls in the community. And that to me is the mutual support. Me having

gone through some of these difficult experiences, all I can do is share some of

the things I've learned about managing my mental health. And some of the

attitudes I've learned to have to take, to keep kind of strong stance for

myself, strong boundaries which are things I wasn't allowed to have growing up.

I wasn't allowed to have any boundaries. And just relearning them in your 40's,

and relearning about yourself and your body and going through -- sorry the word

is evading me. Going through puberty again I meant to say, just all a flurry.

A flurry of things to suddenly be learning when you're 00:38:00basically almost at

midlife. [laughs] But you learn from other people when you share of yourself.

And then you get to see them grow and you get to feel a sense of accomplishment

for them in that you provided your strength and hope. And then they can see them

themselves. Which I never had a mother to help me to do that. My sister hasn't

lived in the country since I was 19. She lives in Ireland with her husband and

kids. And if there's anything that starting my own journey of being a support

member of our community has shown me it's our strength and resilience as a

community, and the things that we go through.

And to me those all happened in those small moments of togetherness when we come

together. And I just want to provide those more and more as I get older and

further along in my transition. I 00:39:00just want to be available for people in my

community because sometimes we're the only people available for us most of the

time. And that was also always clear in New York growing up, transgirls stuck to

themselves. My bisexuality is always erased by my partners, you're not bi,

you're gay. Then by my straight partner, You're not gay, you're hetero. It's

small microaggressions that people don't realize that they're erasing your

identity because they're living by theirs, and they want you to fit into it.

They want you to fit into their box. But that's the beauty of breaking that with

transition because you can make new goals for yourself and new norms for

yourself that may only apply to you. [laughs]

NB: When it came to kind of starting the process of transition -- you've talked

a lot 00:40:00about how Eastern PA a few years after starting transition became really

important for you and your survival. In those early years, how did you go about

accessing things like hormones, medical care, clothing when you were Ubering and

living out of your car? Do you mind talking about that a little bit?

AW: Sure, yeah. Yeah, that was particularly rough because I did not have

insurance for a good period of time. I had about a 5-month severance from

Johnson and Johnson where I continued to have medical care. I was laid off

around my birthday that year which is also around when my father died. A few

months later in December, he died. So, my birthday is October, so I really

started on my birthday, HRT 00:41:00at, it was called the Proud Health Center in

Somerset, New Jersey which it really had been open only a little bit. But it was

part of a family practice that was LGBTQ friendly from Robert Wood Johnson.

And so, I started my hormones there and they were great but they didn't have a

lot of time; since it's expanded, it's a much better program. Also, because I

was driving Uber, I could kind of drop in on meetings that Robert Wood Johnson

was holding from some -- a great nurse over there. Yeah, I don't want to put

their name on film, but they really kind of spearheaded getting, reaching out to

the trans community because our care was so complicated. And in my early years,

I had met a lot of trans people that were like, I can't even deal with hormones

and this hospital's horrible. They're all awful, that was really my first

experience was fear. Is these people are going to misgender me, they're going to

not 00:42:00understand why I'm doing this.

But the reality was a lot of what I was expecting would be needed at the time

frame that I went in, wasn't a requirement. Maybe I think I needed my

psychologist letter at some point, but really after a while, it was just the

doctors were happy enough to be like, okay. So that was nice that it was

changing, but all the other trans people I had met, that hadn't been the case.

Their journey had been very difficult. So, in terms of accessing my hormones, I

was able to continue even without insurance to pay full price. So, I just paid

out of pocket. So that was a big challenge, right? And another reason my car got

repo'd because I was not going without my spironolactone or hormones because my

depression would just kind of come over me if I did.

I met a good friend in the music scene who's also trans and 00:43:00nonbinary who's in

her thirties. So -- they use they/them pronouns, their thirties. And we kind of

helped support each other too, which was ideal for me. She needed a ride from

her job that there was no bus route out of, and I would drive an hour from

wherever I was and get her help. We had $5 to our name. We'd [laughs] buy some

meat at Aldi together and cook it. Whatever it took, share spironolactone,

that's pretty common story. I was really getting low on hormones and things when

I finally came to this area. And eventually through the bartending I learned

that I could get medical assistance around the time of COVID,

continue to 00:44:00get my injectable estrogen. So that worked out and also that that

you get like a six-month prescription. [laughs] Kind of helps too that I could

kind of float through a year without it being too difficult. But luckily, I had

been around the trans community in New Brunswick, mostly Latina trans community

since I speak Spanish. And I had learned a lot about what they went through for

the feminizing aspects, a lot of this harm they do themselves. And so that was

my greatest fear. So having understanding of biology in the medical background,

I refused to kind of do this almost approaching self-harm things to myself.

Thankfully, I didn't have to resort to that, but I would have easily

unfortunately, and I know girls who do. I do everything to help them not go down

that path. But it's education, it's support.

And this is 00:45:00what small nonprofits are doing in this country the same way that,

empathetic, sympathetic churches have always been doing to this country on civil

rights. We need our community and need each other to do that. We don't get those

things online. I don't think, some may, but I don't think that's the case.

NB: You mentioned a community of Latina trans women in New Brunswick.

AW: Sure.

NB: Can you kind of talk about what they taught you and what you learned from that?

AW: Sure. Well, I actually forgot about the first trans woman I met in New

Brunswick used to deliver my film from Epson film -- Fujifilm, sorry. And she

was wonderful transfem, big lady, just really hysterical Latina woman, and we

always cracked up about whatever is going on with my boyfriends, with whoever

she was 00:46:00dating. But she would kind of clue me into what some of the girls that

would come into the shop to get either passport photos or just a photo to send

home or to a partner of how good they look.

And so often just being in the community, I would get -- even at the local HIV

like testing place. Which is around the corner from me right on George Street,

New Brunswick I would meet girls there and just talk about what they're going

through. And some of the unfortunate, negative side effects of like bad breast

implants or injectable liquids of all different kinds, that's just like horror

stories. And so, from those experiences, I always kind of try to carry forward

like, anyway that will help that I can.

It ended up at my corporate job being kind of doing that advocacy because in the

past 20 years 00:47:00corporations are really picking up in their attempts to reach out

to communities, like ours which are marginalized. And advocating within the

organization, but also trying to support external groups like Eastern PA Trans

Equity, etc. in getting the message out about our health care, about our lives.

I'm glad they're doing that.

Probably seen like the Love Has No Labels kind of campaign that brings out a lot

of corporations. I hope it helps, but honestly often it doesn't, it's only our

smaller groups, our insular groups that are doing really super grassroots stuff

to just support each other. There was a Puerto Rican Action Board was a group

there that I didn't actually end up getting involved with, but coworker at the

time did. And kind of keep me apprised and I try to support when I can, but

again, when you just kind of work in a 00:48:00living for your life, it's very difficult

to get along those things unfortunately but you learn.

NB: So, what has your advocacy looked like both in your current place of work

and with Eastern PA Trans Equity Project.

AW: So, I mean most of my advocacy is really through Eastern PA Trans Equity

Project. In my previous positions was around the time of marriage equality. I

had people coming in from PFLAG and doing like the How To Be An Ally 101 courses

the PFLAG has. So, I would get speakers to come in and do Lunch and Learns, also

have LGBTQ people speaking of our facilities, doing fundraising around the organization.

Do you mean -- one of my favorites was 00:49:00a photo event will read it like different

pride, rainbow flag colored backgrounds. And gave people signage to kind of show

their support and hold up signs supporting LGBTQ people that was right before

marriage equality. So, 5 or 6 years I was organizing that alongside doing my

work. Fortunately, corporate setting, you're still running a business so you

only get a few hours a day or a week. And you just really have to get it all

done, but you're getting the money to get that out there. So, it's really just

kind of like a quick production, get everyone excited about it, do something

fun, get them involved and then it's back to business as usual. And usually

unfortunately, this is kind of like an extracurricular thing, you're not really

getting rated for it at your job. It's just you're doing it out of love. And so

that would be in my career at least one of the things

I'm proudest of 00:50:00doing. Then with Eastern PA in the past couple of years, that's

been my main focus. So, I run the online Zoom trans support group. I set up a

Discord server during the pandemic for members of our community trans

identifying, as well as a separate space within it for non-binary individuals,

because they may have more private things they don't want to discuss. And we're

just trying still to get everyone there to be able to talk to each other to get

the access and be able to discuss their medical needs, legal needs, beauty

needs. Understanding how do I do my makeup, one of the hardest things because we

haven't been raised or allowed to be raised as we want to be. And then we have

to do it ourselves, but you have to have community around you to teach 00:51:00 that.

So all the personal things and the life things can happen in that private space,

which has been wonderful. Hopefully in the next year we're going to have a lot

more kind of public hangout events, board game parties, DJ parties, whatever.

Which is something I'm hoping to start getting the funding for. Then Corrine

Goodwin, who's the leader of the organization, she is the one organizing all of

our larger events. So, all of the Trans Day of Visibility events, all of the

Trans Day of Remembrance events, and [inaudible] events, fundraising events all

throughout the state. I mean last Trans Day of Remembrance, I think she did four

in a row, drove all over PA to do different events. I mean it's amazing. Little

hard for me to do, I don't have a car, but I'd be right there with her.

Also, you know the LGBTQ events locally, we do 00:52:00stands at those, we try to get

people involved, get them to join the Lehigh Valley Renaissance. Which is our

transfem and non-binary kind of social group that also meets once a month which

Corrine runs, and I can run occasionally. But the main part of that really is

for me, I try and do support since I'm still working on getting out of a long

period of always on the edge of. [LAUGH]. homelessness again. So, the hope is in

the next few years it's really gonna kind of get to where we can be out there

and supporting each other and getting the word out. Because, I think if there's

anything I've learned it's just I am meeting now at this point in my life, so

many trans folks from all different walks of life. I love their stories; I love

the things that they've gone through.

I love how 00:53:00unexpected, and talented, and compassionate so many of them are and

how good we're at supporting each other and supporting the community that we

can. And I think one of the bravest things, which Corrine is kind of pointed out

for each of us, is just living out our day to day life sometimes. Even

bartending was really showing up in a way for my community because so many

people haven't met a trans person. And like that means somebody who can openly

and freely talk, as like no, just leave me alone, has been nice.

NB: What do you think it took for you to get to that place of being able to

openly and freely discussing your identity, not just with other transfems and

trans women, but just with people in 00:54:00 generally.

AW: It's a really good question, I mean through all the previous stuff I was

talking about with my mental health and stuff, that was certainly the most

terrifying part, just the fear of violence, I think. Having a friend in that

group, having younger people actually who I worked with, just being supportive,

like it's cool. Like it being no big deal. Because still I think -- what I point

out to a lot of people is that everybody has a bit of internalized transphobia,

especially trans folks. At some point in your transition, there's just this

overpowering fear that you're gonna destroy your life and because that's what

society tells us.

But just that little bit of 00:55:00acceptance and a friend, currently I lost a very

good friend, who was that friend who just show up and just bounce stuff off each

other, take a trip somewhere. Both having difficult things going on in our lives

and having that it took a long time to find anyone who's even willing to hang

out with me. I'm usually the person alone if I go out somewhere because it's

just, you're new to an area, you haven't really met people who want to spend

time with you. That and you're terrified of how they will perceive you or that

they'll notice the microaggressions that you receive on a daily basis. Which did

happen a lot during the early years of my transition, particularly in this area.

Until you start to meet this -- really, okay. Well, I didn't think I was safe

here, but wow, I actually am. So it's those little steps in the right direction

from the driving to this like -- you just kinda gotta 00:56:00reiteratedly do the thing.

[laughs]. Until you're comfortable, but that was my process. Other people, I

know they're just right in it, they're like, yeah, this is it. I'm like, wow,

that's amazing, because for me, I would spend a lot of time really worrying

about how this is affecting my mental health if it was a good thing.

But always knowing that it was down the line because of the moments of gender

euphoria and the moments of self care, or all the things you've always ever

wanted about your femininity. And those who appreciate it, realizing that they

truly appreciate you and they have questions, but they accept you. I love the

communication of it. I'm a storyteller, I guess. So it makes sense that I would

like to get involved and get into the nitty gritty with people who have 00:57:00questions for our community. About who we are, and what it took us to get

individually where we are?

NB: Yeah. You mentioned feeling safe in the Lehigh Valley. Can you talk a little

bit about what it was for you to kind of come into that sense of safety?

AW: Sure. It's honestly only been the past year. So, I've been here maybe 3 or 4

years but it's more really about the country's political environment, not so

much about the Valley. But when you're in a new place, like when I was in Spain

or all the moving I did throughout my childhood, every new place kind of comes

with a whole new set of where am I, what is going on? Am I safe here?

And I've certainly had that from of my other friends from 00:58:00 marginalized

communities. You go into a bar with them and then they're like, I am not feeling

safe here and all of a sudden this was me. Where am I, like I am not safe here

as an immediate reaction, because you've been in those situations before

throughout your life.

So originally, I did not feel safe here. The reason I do now is being out and

proud and really not letting anyone get in my way with that, they certainly try

wherever you go. I would guess externally I do have a bit of passing privilege,

but usually when people hear my voice and stuff, I don't. And that's when the

questions start to dig in and the stares, if there's somebody who is

unsympathetic to me just being left alone to live my life.

But finally in the 00:59:00past even five months as people are coming out of COVID, the

events are starting to come back. The places that we can go are starting to come

back. The Stonewall closed here toward the end of the pandemic. I'd never been

there except for that closing. Which is upsetting, but I was finally starting to

hear the stories from the community, about how sad it was that space was going.

And I'm already learning and seeing queer community building the spaces up

again, and I think it's a great opportunity for a lot of people to get in and

start building those up. Because we need them, especially the trans community, a

lot of the people that are on the server with me, they don't leave the house and

I hate that for us, I hate it. That makes me feel like the kid I was stuck in my

parents' basement and it breaks my heart, because it took years of therapy

or me to go embrace that 01:00:00kid and be like, you're okay, you're safe. And what our

community has always needed to do at some point our lives is embrace ourselves,

embrace that hurt inner child that wasn't allowed to be who they are. It's who

you are, why would anyone not allow that? It's just, I'll never understand.

And so safety for me with the complex post-traumatic stress has come through

those friendships I was talking about. Going through some of the experiences

that were difficult, like with political rhetoric and pundits. And that stuff

comes into your life when you work in a public setting, like a bar or

restaurant, the attitudes, the MAGA hats. People with Nazi symbols on their

clothing, literally walking into your restaurant and sitting down and having a 01:01:00meal, but I'm the problem. It takes a great deal of humor, somebody to turn to

and be like, I don't know what's going on, let's get through this day, please.

Which is fun in the food industry, because you have that ability to, to joke

things off, otherwise you wouldn't be there. But also, for the PTSD part it's

about learning to compartmentalize again. Which is so difficult when you're

struggling with mental health. PTSD is about living in the past and not being

able to live in the present. How do you get yourself back to right now and stand

with pride. And I just have to pull from so many sources in my past, in my life,

and the people I talked to and I know love me, which are very few it seems

sometimes when you're in a new 01:02:00place, because they're far away.

You have to pull from all those sources to make yourself hold your head high

basically and get through it and not allowed allow yourself to go through your

life [inaudible] basically. Which sometimes there'll be days, that's all that's

gonna feel like. But you have to get back to being able to put the negative

feelings in some regard on the shelf so that you can continue.

But it's literally only something I think I had to completely relearn in the

past couple years. Because when you're really suffering from serious trauma

symptoms, you don't know where you are. You hit a point of frozen to collapse,

to hyper vigilant, to frozen again, to collapse. And as you get your head out of

that and you learn to do self care and what it takes for yourself. That's when

you can come to that 01:03:00point. Yeah, that's what's worked for me at least [laughs]

NB: I'm curious, you mentioned at the start of the interview that Catholicism,

was quite harmful for you in terms of growing up during the AIDS crisis. And

seeing the Catholic church is kind of blatant homophobia. I'm curious as you've

gotten older, have you ever returned to faith. Is it something that has become

important to you?

AW: So, oddly enough, I mean I think a lot of children just understanding

childhood development and stuff. My ex was actually once an art teacher, so we

had a lot of discussions about that type of thing, and it's nice to watch and

understand, like to see almost how I was learning and the things that my mom was

doing more along those 01:04:00lines. Sorry, what was the question again? I have a

really like -- I always have to kind of like think things through.

NB: No that's okay, I'm just curious, do you feel at this point in your life

that a sense of faith is something that --

AW: I see yeah, the faith questions. So, and losing my mother even in the

Catholic church setting. And then going to Catholic school for the rest of my

life, you certainly still rely on some of the allegories and stories behind the

Catholic faith. And the concepts of loving God, but the god I was experiencing

was hurtful. He took my mother away, right. The violence of my home hurtful,

right. That's not the religion's fault.

But certainly, the way I was not allowed to mourn and etc., made it 01:05:00 very

difficult for me to appreciate that there was a loving God. It just seemed like

an angry guy to me. So, I did though bring up on the spirituality of feeling

that my mother was always around me and watching for me. My grandmother when she died.

And so only around the time I started getting my therapy and understanding

through that and meditation and EMDR, which was some of the things that kind of

help you surface the trauma and talk to it to settle some of the [shudders] that

causes those bodily reactions. And around this time when I realized how visual

I've always been in dreaming and in looking at my life. I actually started to

embrace Celtic paganism. Which is stuff I had read up throughout my life on

their mythology.

The name Aoife, she was a warrior 01:06:00chieftainess, so that's why that's my chosen

name now. And I felt a strong spiritual connection to the kind of pantheon of

gods and goddesses as well as the natural connection to an agrarian lifestyle,

to farming, to the cycles of the Earth, to nature.

So, for me that's my I wouldn't call it religion, I'd call it just myself

practice of faith, because it's only me who does it. I don't discuss it with

anyone else. It's just helps me put the symbols and the imagery around me that

helps me feel protected. That would be the best way to describe it. And that was

something that even in my grandmother's Catholic faith. She had Roma or you know

people of Roma descent come 01:07:00to the farm. And she would help them even though she

was Catholic because they had to help each other in those areas.

So, I don't see it too much different from the idea of the Christian faith for

some reason. I do know though that the dogma of the Catholic faith is certainly

what, yeah really kind of tore me up. Because it has no place for me as a queer

person, it's just kind of is pushing away the things that are really needed for

people to heal. Which is why I never felt comfortable because I was never

allowed to heal. So, it's as much the society around it as it is the kind of

dogma surrounding it. That said I would never be angry at somebody for being faithful.

I think the 01:08:00Catholic faith is the only thing that got my grandmother through

what she went through in the Irish Revolution and civil war and to her dying day

so I respect it in that regard too. I see its power. I think that I wouldn't

consider myself an atheist anymore. I'm scientifically minded, but definitely

feeling more along the lines of Pagan these days.

NB: Is there anything we haven't talked about that you would like to discuss?

AW: I'm not sure. Well I guess it's interesting, you know the company I'm at now

the enterprise resource group stuff they're doing -- it's like their first year

doing it. So that's great to see companies still starting to embrace this, I'm

probably their only trans employee. I would love in the work that I'm doing with

them as they're starting out to get 01:09:00some better speakers into these businesses

because we are a capitalist democracy. Business runs a lot of things including

public opinion sometimes.

And the fact that, you really can't decide we're not going to do business with a

whole group of people or something and the corporations understand this now.

While the capitalist mindset is pretty cutthroat, can have a lot of ills in

society, I think that seeing them starting to work towards the betterment of

marginalized communities is just amazing. I want to see more of it, and I want

to be a part of it.

But for me, I'm more honestly the kind of nonprofit route is where I hope to

keep going with my future endeavors. And supporting how I 01:10:00can and get into the

rallies and getting to the meetups and the show ups to just get out the message

that we're regular people, like everyone else. That's really all I can stand for.

NB: And so you would like eventually to leave your current role then and move

into a nonprofit?

AW: I would hope to at some point. I think I have some other things to do in the

meantime in getting my life back together. Seems to have been a long couple of

years. But I have some small, more creative projects in mind; possibly getting

back into another band. Music has been one of my avenues. I haven't talked about

some of the music I did, but it's humorous. I did it just a wacky album a while

back and then one I would like to do again is kind of cute. It was around the

time of Don't Ask Don't Tell.

I did a 01:11:00band where it was basically [inaudible] up the military with jokes about

military jargon and a lot of people in the military understands. There's kind of

like a very gay undertone, some of the stuff. Other groups of men together or

groups of women together that anyone on a sports team could probably tell you

too. But it was just a cute thing that I used to do as a kind of protest thing

around the time of Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

So hopefully more little pop up art things like that. Like try and focus on my

art, since my focus right now really is as much caring for others as it is

caring for my creative spirit, honoring that legacy of family members have

always kind of, some of them been creatives, and bringing a little bit of joy

into what feels like a dark world. I hope to do that in a way that will work.

And those connections are 01:12:00one of the connections in bands and stuff that a lot

of people don't see, they feel are very insular, if you go to like a queer rock

show or whatever. But people are starting to see it more and I know like 20

queer bands all of a sudden, whereas I feel like 10 years ago I would have known one.

So those are the spaces where you can kind of feel like you're on the front line

and do some fun things to kind of send out a message. Like we're here, we're not

going anywhere, [laughs] and we're gonna sing very loud about it. And hopefully

bring some of that energy into future protests, whatever it takes. And

definitely just trying to up my activism level as well as my support level and

hopefully that ends up in a nonprofit.

NB: Something that's been recurring throughout our conversation I've noticed is

the role of music and kind of creative endeavors in sustaining you. When do you

think that 01:13:00 started?

AW: God, I mean, that's definitely at age five. My mother was great at

encouraging that as well as my sister, and you know, in ways my father even

would do magic tricks or whatever, whatever it took to just kind of get through

the sad part and I think it is actually culturally an Irish trait like you just

laugh through everything.

I'm very thankful for that as well as the other members of like -- my mother's

best friend and her husband were just always a source of laughter growing up.

That was very lucky to have, even though I've had a lot of hard times, I'm

immensely privileged and I know that. And so for me, one of the earliest things

I did to mourn her was to focus on my creativity, focus on my love of nature,

and express 01:14:00it to the best of my ability to bring humor and joy and intensity to

other people's lives. I think it's just one of the most amazing mediums -- and

always in the illage, right? The piano bars, drag shows. I just went to drag

queen bingo for the first time here over Easton. Amazing! I won gummy sushi. I

think it was on -- yeah.

And so like those are the types of things that I think just bring people that

momentary joy or like listen, I don't take myself so damn seriously. You know,

all this stuff that's going on in the world. Yeah, it's serious, but we can give

ourselves a moment to laugh together, to celebrate something together and to

celebrate the strength of and resilience of our queer communities and what they

can provide to the rest of culture, you know, in this country.

Because that's what marginalized communities have always done. We've always

given 01:15:00culture back to this country that seems to just be glossed over.

Meanwhile, it's mostly what we look at on the television, on Netflix right.

There's a great deal of history of arts and things that lead up to all the

amazing things that are happening in the media, right? And I just want to be

there to support it.

NB: So we are nearing the end of our time. But on the note of culture, I wanted

to circle back, and to ask you about your time in Spain?

AW: Sure, sure.

NB: And what that was like, what it was like for you as a young person to kind

of be abroad as so much was happening in the 90s?

AW: Sure, yeah, I mean, right out of high school and doing Spain was just the

best experience of my life. A lot of family members like, why did you come 01:16:00 back?

[laughs] Which I thought was funny. I was like, cause I was just gonna be broke

if I stayed out there. [laughs] They were still kind of bringing their economy

back together at that time in Spain.

But yeah, the culture, this history, the sense of community and family, the

music scene. Jazz clubs, which I grew up seeing jazz in New York. Punk clubs,

there was an anarchist club or bar in every city I went to. There's a lot more

socialist and deeply entrenched kind of revolutionary spirit in a lot of Spain,

considering what they went through with their dictator. Learning the language

and the culture, I mean, I've been very lucky to get access to European cultures

and Latino cultures throughout my life. And, just that loving to learn about

life, and loving to learn about other people, and celebrate things together with them.

Which, when I did come back to the states, it just 01:17:00seemed we're getting further

and further apart from each other. Owning a home, nobody's going and visiting

each other unless there's a downtown. All these things are evaporating. Instead

of being a place like Spain, -- in Salamanca, Spain, North of Madrid is where I

lived. They have seven massive renaissance era churches there, huge steeples.

A strong appreciation for the contributions of all aspects of cultures there.

And so, walking around the streets around that Spanish architecture and the

food, and then having different kind of French roommate, two Italian roommates,

I stayed away from all Americans. I made sure I made no American friends, which

sounds selfish, but on the Irish passport it's like, I don't wanna speak any

English, I'm here to speak 01:18:00Spanish. So, we all speak Spanish in our broken

accents, it's pretty cute. [laughs]

So, I learned a lot about myself, and my sexuality too. Because honestly, they

were really finally free from the -- a lot of Americans may not get the kind of

grip the Catholic church has had throughout Europe for so long. That it was

interesting to be an environment where everybody was anti-Catholic, down to the

humor. I mean, they respect to religion, but the humor is completely dissing.

The Catholic faith, even though most of the parents would have been Catholic,

but the church did not do kind things to their families. And that the Catholic

church did not do kind things to my family either, and my grandmother and

mother's generation.

So, I think just getting to experience 01:19:00that, to see a society kind of moved

along outside of the kind of structures of religion was amazing, right? And

then, it's just so odd to me that now we're seeing this kind of attempt to claw

that old way of thinking back. But seeing them both I think, has helped me kept

from some perspective about, hopefully society goes along the path of embracing

more diversity and more openness to other cultures into our own. But a lot to

learn there definitely.

NB: Are you optimistic about the future?

AW: A little scared certainly. I just think that coming at least from the

background 01:20:00of my grandmother and the revolution and civil war there -- she was

in jail at 14 by the Irish. There's actually a book written about it by my uncle

Thomas. But, to know that somebody can be that resilient to get through things

like that, and then go on and continue to raise a family, is so inspiring, and

just kind of fills your heart.

At least for me with a connection to that, to knowing enough about myself that

given the time and the need to protect members of my community in whatever, if I

can, I'm always going to be doing that no matter what, no matter what. It's very

easy when life is constantly pressuring you on all sides, especially in the new

media landscape, to feel like the other shoe is gonna drop tomorrow.

But the thing that always seems to happen when that shoe does drop, people don't

back down, they stand up. And so it might be a long series of years with the

current news of Roe 01:21:00versus Wade, and Supreme Court. But I think that these are

the types of things that galvanized the right people to get up, and stand up,

and make our voices heard. And then we're going to see a lot of that. And I've

wanted that for this country, I really have. I think there is an American

revolutionary spirit that has been lost. And a lot of other countries have been

going through these periods of time.

So, seeing those other countries having those historical perspectives and I

can't forecast what's going to happen. But I can certainly sense that we have

been for a long time now, and a lot of change, and that is the start of fighting

for what we believe in, however we can. And I think hearts and minds are opening slowly.

But, the negative voices are always the ones that get themselves arrested first,

[laughs] 01:22:00right? And that speaks to the ability of our country to, in the right

places, actually do the right thing when it comes down to protecting the

standards of a civil society, a separation of church, and state, and so forth. I

think there will always be negative forces clawing at the edges of that, to see

what they can get in their favorite part. We shall see, I know where I'll be standing.

NB: [laughs] We shall see indeed. So, we have about four minutes left. Is there

anything you would like to add that we haven't touched on?

AW: I've covered a lot. [LAUGH] Gosh, I 01:23:00mean, I don't really think so. I just

love seeing my community grow and expand. I'm looking forward to seeing the ways

that we all can continue to support each other and feel supported. But also,

we've all been giving each other a lot of space, and we've needed it. Everyone

is needed to heal right now. This isn't just trans people, this is the whole country.

One of the main things I noticed part ending too, is just a boy, here's another

group of people that are just falling apart, because everything they know is

being challenged. And they're going to try and take that on. It's something they

don't understand. That's the big thing that I had. Think people without a little

historical perspective in the country, and without a little more of a kind of

like, we gotta stand up for this, queers bash back. All that 1980s, 1990s

powerful stuff.

I hope I'll start to see 01:24:00that stuff coming back. I hope it's not needed though.

There's way other better ways to get our message across. And I think those are

the things that happen in our day to day lives when we support our friends, and

we support each other. Everyone needed each other's support right now. But what

we've been doing for so long is living in our little cocoons, and there's no

room for anyone else's thoughts but your own in that space. So, I just hope that

more of us learn that we can bring our thoughts out there, and help support and

inspire each other by our actions, and sometimes just by being ourselves, which

is an action enough itself. That's it, that's all I got.

NB: That's it.

AW: That's it.

NB: That's it.

AW: That's [laughs][snaps].

NB: You heard it here first ladies and gentlemen.

AW: [laughs]

NB: Well Aoife thank you so much --

AW: Thank you

NB: -- for your time, and for sharing your story with us. It was really an honor.

AW: Absolutely you too. Absolutely great interview skills. I love it.

NB: Thank 01:25:00 you.