Marshall Silverstein, July 30, 2013

Interview with Marshall Silverstein, July 30, 2013

SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER: What is your full name?

MARSHALL SILVERSTEIN: The name is Marshall Silverstein. I have a question. You talk about family, and you're here about business. My family was not in business, but my wife's family was in business. So we'll have to differentiate.

SC: We'll talk about both. But, still, to see the family histories, this is a 00:01:00"life history" type of oral history also.

MS: I was born in Brooklyn on August 18, 1931. Lived in Brooklyn with my parents and my sister and many family members. Whoever didn't have a home or didn't know what to do with their lives came to my mother, and she solved all their problems. At one time we had thirteen people living there and one bathroom!

SC: Do you remember the address in Brooklyn?

MS: The first one was 1256 56th Street -- amazing! Yes-- In Brooklyn Borough. Then we moved to 57th Street, 14th and 15th Avenue, I don't remember the 00:02:00address. Then we moved to 55th Street; that address was 1341 55th Street.

SC: Could you talk a little bit about your education and background-- going through until you came to Allentown and beyond?

MS: I studied at the Hebrew Institute of Boro Park - which was a Modern Orthodox school. From there I went to Brooklyn Technical High School, which was one of 00:03:00the three most premier schools in the whole five boroughs. Unfortunately, I got sick during the second year and couldn't travel downtown any longer. So I went to New Utrecht High School. I finished up in the New Utrecht High School in Brooklyn. You want to know about jobs? During the time I went to New Utrecht High School, I delivered orders for the local vegetable man, during the week -- on a bicycle with a basket.

GAIL EISENBERG: During high school?

MS: Yes, and also worked in New York City, my junior year in high school, delivering laces throughout NYC by hand-truck. At the end of my senior year, I 00:04:00worked at the Pioneer Country Club in the Catskills as a busboy and a waiter. I worked there for about five years during the holidays and summers. From there -- the New Utrecht High School - I went to the Fashion Institute of Technology, which was located on one floor of a Central Needle Trade H.S. in NYC, and now occupies a whole square block in New York and is well known. When I graduated 00:05:00from there, I studied management for the needle trades. When I was in my senior term, it was a two year school, I got a call from the Dean of the engineering of the school, who had left the term before and went to York, PA to manage a women's clothing manufacturing facility, and he asked me if I would join him out there, and I did. I was there for six months and was drafted into the service. Notice I said drafted, not volunteered. That was the time of the Korean War. While I was over in Korea, I thought about my future life and thought a 00:06:00four-year degree might be helpful in the future, and I got a long life to live. So, I wrote a letter to Columbia University and told them I would like to study engineering, and they got back to me and said you have to send your files, grades, whatever information. I asked my mother to send them. Lo and behold they wrote back that I was accepted. This was for the February 1954 semester, because I left the service in December of 1953. Speaking of working, I wanted to make 00:07:00some money while I had off -- a month or so - I taught at a driving school -- automobile driving for a month -- it was very hazardous. I studied engineering, and after two years, Nina and I married, and we lived in Manhattan -- -within walking distance to the school.

After graduating from school, I got a job in Los Angeles with North American Aviation in industrial engineering, which I had studied at Columbia. I was there 00:08:00a year when once again, my ego was pumped up by the leader of the department said he was leaving, and he asked me to come with him. We both went to Atomics International, where we manufactured atomic reactors for school and experimental purposes. An interesting thing was that I had to get a clearance for atomic energy, which is even higher than top secret. They invaded my block in Brooklyn, knocking on every door to find out, "Who was this guy? What has he done?"

I was there for about a year, and I got a letter from my father-in-law, who 00:09:00manufactured handbags, saying his brother was retiring, and he would very much like for me to work with him. I had told him years before that I would. But after I was out on my own. I knew that I could make a living for my family without any help from anyone else. I would consider it - if he would. He said if you want to do it, this is the time to do it. I need the help now.

GE: What year is this about?

MS: The end of 1958. So, at the end of 1958, Nina and I had our first child. We 00:10:00packed up and moved to Allentown. My father-in-law had a handbag factory in Pennsburg. That is through my first 50 years of life -- working. When I was 50, my partner and I had a disagreement -- we were the best partners there could be, but he wanted to expand, and I just didn't feel it was worthwhile. We had two factories and six contractors -- and enough is enough. So we said, "Let's ask our kids if they have any interest." He had four kids, and four kids were 00:11:00interested. I had three kids and no kids were interested. I did the fair thing and said that he should be able to buy it from me, and he did. We closed the deal on a Friday afternoon, and I said, "I'm free now, I could be semi-retired. I could read books now". At two o'clock on Thursday afternoon, the next week, I was lying on that couch over there -- reading my book, and I got a call from First Valley Bank in Bethlehem. "Marshall, since you have nothing to do with your time, would you like to do some consulting for us?" I said, "Jim, I don't 00:12:00know what you are talking about." So he said, "Come on over, " and we talked. They had some small business loans that weren't performing. All they had were numbers to look at. They wanted to know why they weren't performing. I agreed with them, and I took my first assignment. From there on, I was a consultant -- no more lying on the couch, reading books. Then I met someone who was also a consultant. We became partners in a consulting business. I did that until the age of 70 --- it was good. There is something I left out -- from the 00:13:00manufacturing business. While we were in the manufacturing business, we started an outlet store and then multiplied those outlet stores by thirteen. It was a very successful business.

SC: What was the name of the outlet store and the pocketbook business?

MS: The name of the outlet stores was "Handbags and Luggage." We had a store here in Allentown. The major store was in Reading in the outlet stores. And, you're looking at the guy who talked them into opening that big outlet. They had 00:14:00that store there, and I tried to get into that store. It was all their own merchandise, and they wouldn't let me in. The CEO there was a very nice guy, Manfred O. Lee (nothing to do with the jeans that they produced.) I met him for breakfast once every couple of weeks, they had a cafeteria there. I tried to outline to him why it would be profitable with all the empty buildings that he had there because they sent their work down South to manufacture. He turned me down all the time. I got a call, he said, "Marshall, we will have a handbag 00:15:00store here before Christmas. Do you want to come in?" Sure, and that evolved from a handbag store to-- not mine, the handbag store was mine -- to furniture, everything you could think of, tools, whatever . . . very successful. One of the first outlet stores in the country, and I think it might have been the biggest at the time. As I said, consulting was my last hurrah. During all this that I told you about, I had my hands in about fifteen other businesses. When people needed money or advice, they asked me to become a partner. I became a partner-- 00:16:00not a working partner-- but with capital or input. It was very, very enjoyable getting along with all the people.

SC: Could you also talk about your family background? And we'll go back to business then. Gail wil go back to business.

MS: Let me just finish off the business. The handbag business - we were bought out by Samsung. I had never heard the word before. They called me up; they wanted me to sell the handbags. I said we were manufacturers, not salespeople. I would introduce them to whatever salespeople he wanted. When I first met him, I said, "Hello, Mr. Sung." He looked at me and said, "My name is not Sung. I 00:17:00represent Samsung." "Who is Samsung?" We all know who Samsung is today.

GE: Although I didn't know about that type of product.

MS: They were manufacturing handbags, but were unable to produce -- sell them where they wanted. They had heard about my sales ability -- not the mom and pop stores, but the shoe chains and major department stores -- that's where they wanted to go.

SC: What major department stores?

MS: Macy's, Gimbels, Korvette, everyone that you know of, we sold to. The best one was Marshalls. They made an agreement with me. They would buy all my 00:18:00leftovers when the season was over. This enabled me to produce to inventory for people like Macy's who placed an order and wanted the stuff the next week.

SC: Could you talk a little about your family background? Your parents, grandparents, and names back as far as you know--and what they did and how they were educated.

MS: My father was born in Austria and came here when he was a kid. My mother was born in NYC. I'll give you a little background. My grandfather, my father's 00:19:00father, must have been wealthy in Europe. They sent him to the United States to study, back in the early 1900s. After he finished studying, he went back to Europe. They financed him in a candy store. He ate the store broke! He ate up all the products! They came here -- my father was about ten years old, or something like that. My grandfather was in the piece goods business, selling remnants.

GE: Material?

MS: Yes. My father eventually did the same thing. He would go into one factory and see what they had leftover and go to another factory and tell them this is what I got? Do you want it? This is the price. So he'd go from one factory to another. My father's name was Herman, and my mother's name was Anna. His parents were Sam and Goldie. My mother's parents -- I do not know where they were born. My grandmother's name was Rifka Rachel. My grandfather's name -- I don't 00:21:00remember. I did not know what he did for a living. I know the first I knew of them, my grandmother was living in my house with us.

SC: Were they from Austria?

MS: I don't know. I have one sister named Doris. You don't want me to go into aunts and uncles?

SC: So this was your mother's family?

MS: Which?

SC: That you've just been talking about.

SC: How about your dad's side?

MS: I told you about him, his name was Sam.

SC: Do you know anything about your father's side? So, you don't know as much about your mother's side.

MS: I do know something. They had a restaurant in lower NYC. That's the only thing I know.

SC: So all that was your father's side of the family?

MS: At first, I talked about my father's parents, who were Sam and Goldie. He was a piece goods guy.

SC: So it's in your blood? Textiles and garment industry.

MS: Not really, it was a means to make a living. I had no love for it or anything like that. Sure I liked it, but no love, nothing like that.

SC: So, as far as any of the jobs, do you know any businesses or employment that any of your aunts and uncles worked in? Is there any connection with what we are looking at in the rest of the family?

MS: In my father's family -- one of his brothers sold zippers. Another brother sold insurance, and.. he had two sisters. One sister was a housewife. The other sister had infantile paralysis when she was a kid, and she couldn't get around 00:24:00too much. She had to move to Arizona because of the weather. She remained single. My mother, on the other hand, had a sister. She was a housewife. She had a brother who was a customer peddler who sold house to house -- underwear and whatever have you. I'm trying to think of anybody else in my mother's family. My 00:25:00mother had a brother who was in the garment trade and made blouses. Another brother, who moved out to California, had a completely different life than we have here. I forget the relationship. One was a professor, another one was an attorney for all the stars out in Hollywood. He was a very handsome man. He was the youngest Colonel in the Air Force during WWII. He led one of Doolittle's wings over Tokyo. Really, that's about all I can think of.

SC: It seems like a very high achieving family -- both sides. Can you talk about your wife's family, her background now, her family -- what you know about the family business?

MS: Let's take her father, his name was William. He had a brother - they both worked in the handbag factory. Nina's mother -- her [last] name was Agaschevitz, 00:27:00shortened to Agus. A whole bunch of extremely intelligent people -- book-wise. [Nina's mother's family] One of them wasn't so smart on the streets. One was a doctor in Brooklyn. He was the smartest one of all. He studied the Tanakh and everything, all the books. He was a brilliant man. Another brother was a professor at Yeshiva University.

GE: I'm sorry. These are Nina's siblings or Nina's parents' siblings?

MS: Nina's mother's siblings. Another one was Jacob, who was a very well known 00:28:00and respected Rabbi in Baltimore. Another one was Paul. Unfortunately, he contracted Agent Orange in the service. He was an accountant, but he got affected by Agent Orange. She had another sister who was a housewife. Her name was Jean Bruch. Father's name was William Bruch.

SC: Can you spell that? For the future, it's good to have names spelled.

MS: Are you recording this whole thing?

SC: Yes.

MS: This is not to be shown to everybody for anything? It's for reference?

SC: It's for our reference. It wouldn't be for many years that it will be used. To have it archived. These are histories that need to be preserved. What's your wife's full name? What is Nina's full name?

MS: Her birth name or current?

SC: Birth name.

MS: Nina Silverstein.

GE: Her name now is Silverstein, what was her birth name?

MS: Bruch. But it wasn't Nina. It was Pauline.

GE: So Nina is a nickname.

MS: Yes, when she was born, one of her uncles -- the one afflicted with Agent Orange -- started calling her Nina or Ninya. Nina went to Shulamith School in Brooklyn. That's the same kind of school that I went to, only it was for girls, mine was for boys. Then she went to Ramaz in NYC for High School, and also 00:31:00college was City College of the City of New York, etc, etc. Nina did bookkeeping when she graduated school and while we were in California. She was a housewife until my youngest daughter was around eight years old. She was a leader of many organizations around town. She was going to lead a group of [Jewish] Federation people to Israel, but the plans fell through, much to her disliking. She came 00:32:00home and was crying. She had all these plans.

SC: Can we talk about Nina and her background or what she did, and your children?

MS: As I said, Nina was the leader of many organizations. In fact, she won the George Feldman Award. The George Feldman Award is for a leader under forty. She was supposed to win the first one, but they asked her to take the second one because Arnie Rapapport was turning forty, and he was second in line, and they wanted to get him in. With this trip that I told you about, she came home crying because this agency was not agreeing with her -- trying to think of his name-- head of the Federation at that time.

GE: Ivan Schonfeld.

MS: No, I'm talking about a volunteer. A lawyer, CPA, and a tax attorney -- I forget. They went into New York City to talk about it, and there was no cooperation. He told her to forget about the trip. He told the travel bureau (it was a wholesale travel bureau.) She came home and was crying because of all the work she had done. I said, "Do you still want to do it?" She said certainly. I 00:35:00said I'll fix it up for you. I called some man in New York -- he was the head of a wholesale travel agency. I sent her in, and she went in, and they had a wonderful trip. She wanted to go into the travel business. She went to school to study travel. She opened a travel agency with Sandy Zales. This goes back almost forty years. She was in business until ten years ago.

SC: What was the name of the business?

MS: Travel Team. We all had imaginations for naming. I named it Handbags and Luggage. She named it Travel Team. She did this for a long time. A lot of people were very happy with her service, and it was a successful agency.

SC: A couple of questions - you talked a little bit about the Jewish community and her work in it, a little bit about your work in it, was there anything else that the two of you did within the community of Allentown and in the Jewish community?

MS: Yes, most of our work, but not all of it, was in the Jewish community, as we 00:37:00were a minority, a very low percentage of the population, so any help you could do, you did. I, myself, was involved in many organizations, including B'nai B'rith, the Jewish War Veterans and most of all, the Jewish Day School. In fact, I was President of the Jewish Day School in the late 70's -- I don't remember the exact year. We were members of Temple Beth El. At Temple Beth El they asked me to be the President of the Cemetery Association, which I did for twenty-five 00:38:00to thirty years. It was a thankless job, everyone said, but for me, it gave me great pleasure because I didn't have to go to meetings or anything like that. I did the work, raised a lot of money. We had lot sales [burial plots]. Were you around at that time?

GE: No -- or I don't know--..

MS: Lot Sales -- I had a map of the cemetery in my office, downstairs. People came in and picked a cemetery lot. Do you want a funny story? This girl comes in -- we won't mention names -- she looks at the map, and she says, "Let me get my 00:39:00father." Her father was out in the car. So, she shows dad a cemetery lot and says, "What about over here for you and mom." He says, "I think I'd like it over there." This went back and forth. "Pop. What goes here? A pinochle player, a cigar smoker, whatever, I think this would be good for you." He finally said okay.. . but I have to show it to mom. Mom was out in the car. Mom came down and agreed with him and everything. "It's fine--.but she would rather be where the daughter said." After a while mom died, he called me up, "remember the side that 00:40:00I wanted? Let's put her over there." And I'm telling you, if I knew what was going to happen with all these stories down there, I'd have had a tape recorder. We would never have a problem with the budget in Temple Beth El because it would be a hit Broadway show!

SC: Since you've come to Allentown, and of course you were married when you came to Allentown, how do you think the Lehigh Valley has changed in these years?

MS: When I came to Allentown, it was a sleepy little town. You could virtually 00:41:00cross Tilghman Street with your eyes closed. There were no cars coming from either way. Today, it ain't so baby! At one time, I would say that I knew every Jewish person in town. We were members of three Synagogues. Ultimately, we broke it down to one. It was a wonderful, wonderful community. Everybody was for each 00:42:00other. Now I don't know, maybe it's because of our age. I know very few people as compared to that time. But Nina and I were involved in all the Crosses: the Blue Cross, the Green Cross, the Red Cross, whatever.

SC: What were the names of the Synagogues that you belonged to? Which Synagogue 00:43:00did you join?

MS: The main one was Temple Beth El, also Sons of Israel and Knesseth Israel (KI as it's currently known.) We were very much involved with the Jewish community. We had a daughter, and when she graduated from college, she toured Europe and went to Israel and liked it there and settled there. We have been to Israel numerous times before. Between my daughter and whatever we were, we have been to Israel about thirty times.

SC: Do you think there is a reason that the next generation isn't staying in Allentown? At least that's what we've been hearing over and over again, that people have moved away, your children's generation.

MS: Let's take a look, what was the leading industry? When we moved here, one of the leading industries - I'm not talking about Air Products, Bethlehem Steel, or whatever. The industries that I knew were the garment trade industry. All those people that you talked about at the meeting at the JCC I know or knew all of them intimately--it's not so anymore. When the kids grew up, like my kids, this one is a mathematician, this one is a business person. I guess they don't have 00:45:00the opportunity in Allentown like they have in Washington, DC -- where one of them is.

SC: What is that child's name in Washington?

MS: Elissa Drucker. Another one in Palo Alto, California, in the midst of -- what do you call that industry?

GE: High Tech?

MS: High Tech Industry. You walk down the street, and there is the head of Microsoft - shopping in the same store and drugstores. You don't have that anymore. The last one of them was Bell Labs, part of Western Electric. It's a different kind of town.

SC: Is that a son or daughter in California?

MS: That's a daughter.

SC: What's her name?

MS: Lori Blum. And then I have a son, Ronald, who is with Amtrak for about twenty-five years. Each one of them has been in their job and never changed.

GE: Which one lives in Israel?

MS: Lori. About ten years ago, she and her family moved to Palo Alto because her husband felt, and rightfully so, that the education was better here -- more opportunities.

GE: So they originally lived in Israel and then moved to California?

MS: Yes. Take a look at Hamilton Street. You used to go down to Hess's and go 00:47:00shopping there. They had sales--you stood at the door at 4:00 am. You ran to the refrigerator and wrapped your arms around it until the clerk came. There's no such thing anymore. There's no strawberry pie like we had at Hess's downstairs. The other stores were Zollinger and Leh's. Now we go out to the concrete malls with the fountains--no more chandeliers. To me, it's just a different 00:48:00atmosphere. Look where I live. I live at 22nd and Highland. I've lived here almost fifty years now. We had neighbors, they all picked up and (I won't say it) moved to the other side of Cedar Crest Boulevard. Instead of a 2,000 foot house, they have a 4,000-foot house. Instead of a Ford, they have a Lexus and whatever have you. This didn't interest me or Nina. And it's different.

GE: I just want to ask some more questions about the business. You said this was your father-in-law - do you want to tell me about the origins of the business?

MS: My father-in-law, I can't tell you why he started the business, but I can imagine. These garment trades -- it didn't take too much money. You bought a 00:50:00couple of sewing machines and put them in the basement and got your wife to sew. He was manufacturing in Connecticut. He had a problem with the Union there. He had a contractor who was making handbags for him in Pennsburg. He was manufacturing in Connecticut, and he might have had one of two other contractors. The plant in Pennsburg -- the company- went bankrupt. He got permission from the Referee in Bankruptcy to go into the [Pennsburg] factory and finish off all the bags that they had there.

GE: So they were in Chapter 11?

MS: Yeah the ones in Pennsburg--.no maybe Chapter 7 or 13 -Going out of business. He went in there and finished off the bags, and he liked the setup -- the life in Pennsburg very much. Between that and the Union in Connecticut, he decided to close in Connecticut and made a deal with the Referee in Bankruptcy and bought all the machines and equipment in Pennsburg, and rented the building 00:52:00in Pennsburg, where he manufactured handbags. What happened in 1958, he wrote me a letter--.

GE: Right, that's when you entered.

MS: I was in Pennsburg, we were there five or ten years of my time. There became a building available in Red Hill. We bought it at auction, and we owned our own building in Red Hill. That's where we manufactured most of our years of the 00:53:00business. Unfortunately, while we were there, my older daughter (who was about ten years old) was in a Hanukkah play at the Jewish Day School. My father-in-law went to see it, then he left for Brooklyn where his wife lived. I didn't mention, his wife lived in Brooklyn all the time. He stayed in Pennsburg during the week, and she came out for the summertime. So he would go home for the weekends. Hanukkah (is in December), so this is the winter, and unfortunately, he was killed in a car accident on the way home. So we kept the plant going --in 00:54:00Red Hill -- until we sold out to Samsung.

GE: I've heard the name Pennsburg, but where is that?

MS: Route 29 towards the end. There was a big difference between the two people. One was an entrepreneur, and one was a worker. My father-in-law was an entrepreneur and a very hard worker.

GE: And his brother worked for him?

MS: Yes.

GE: Did you mention that you had a partner?

MS: Yes, that is Nina's brother. He was at the factory when I got there. He had 00:55:00been working several years before I got there.

GE: Your father-in-law was the originator, and then his brother worked for him. Did you become a partner or owner?

MS: Not while my father-in-law was alive. We were workers there, and after he died, obviously, we became the owners.

GE: That was you and Nina's brother.

MS: Yes, Izzy Bruch.

GE: Were there any other family members in the business?

MS: No.

GE: Did your brother-in-law also live in the area?

MS: Yes.

GE: Does he still live here in the area?

MS: No, he moved to Florida a few years ago.

GE: But up until that time, he lived here. So you made pocketbooks. Were they 00:56:00under store labels?

MS: It was under the name we named them, which was "Charisma la Sac."

GE: Is that two words?

MS: Three words.

GE: Charisma la Sac. When I see the name today, I see the name La Sac.

MS: In that industry, everybody copied from everybody else. It wasn't patented or copyrighted.

GE: So it was under your own brand name, not a store brand.

MS: No, No, No.

GE: You made pocketbooks. Were there other related products that you made?

MS: Amy, can you show her the double umbrella? Do we have it hanging there? We 00:57:00had these things made for us, not that we made it. This is the first one.

GE: Oh my goodness, I have never seen one. It's interesting.

MS: We had a line of bags and umbrellas where we personalized it with your name.

GE: Was it personalized by an embroiderer? Or some sort of marker?

MS: Yes. A girl with beautiful handwriting.

GE: Like a calligrapher. You were a manufacturer, so did you have your own sales force?

MS: Absolutely! When you say a sales force, we had a couple salesmen on our payroll, but most of the salespeople were on commission.

GE: They were reps, sales reps?

MS: Yes, all over the country.

GE: And they represented your merchandise as well as others.

MS: Correct.

GE: How large were you? How many people worked there?

MS: In the factory in Red Hill?

GE: About?

MS: I'm just trying to picture it--.70. For a while, we had another factory in Wilkes-Barre. But we really depended on contractors to fill what we couldn't produce.

GE: Like load-leveling? I guess it's called.

MS: Right.

GE: About how many contractors did you use?

MS: We had six.

GE: What part of the business did you oversee?

MS: I oversaw the business end of the business.

GE: Are you saying the financials?

MS: Yes, the financials. The sales to large companies, for instance. I had an entry into Macy's warehouse. At Macy's warehouse I would see the inventories 01:00:00they had, and I would write up orders to six to eight stores. At that time they were all over the country. I sold to bigger accounts.

GE: Was that you and a couple of salespeople? Did you do the bigger accounts, and the salespeople do the smaller ones?

MS: And they did bigger accounts, too. The ones in New York -- I did most of them. They had their cronies that they sold to ..and all over. They did good jobs. You know these golf tournaments that they have? We made bags for Bob Hope 01:01:00Golf Tournaments and things like that.

GE: Do you mean golf bags?

MS: No, I mean pocketbooks. They have volunteers at the tournament -- so if you are a volunteer, they might give you a t-shirt and a handbag as thanks. We did a lot of bags for Mack Trucks -- we put Bulldogs all over the place. We had Mr. Hanson drive out to Red Hill in his limousine and pick up bags because they were hurting at that moment.

GE: And who is Mr. Hanson?

MS: The Chairman of Mack Trucks. It was very strange to see a limousine pull up 01:02:00to a shipping dock.

GE: So, therefore, what you're telling me is that you didn't just do fashion bags. You also did bags that would be used by companies? Businesses.

MS: No, they were fashion bags. They chose them out of a line. For instance, Mack Trucks, we didn't make anything special for them other than fasten the bulldog on. They had to let us know beforehand because when we manufactured it, you didn't want to put it through the lining on the inside, so we would put it through and then fill in the lining. So, it was just for them.

GE: But they were fashion bags? The materials that you were using, was it leather?

MS: Initially, we used the highest grade of vinyl, but expanded vinyl. I would defy anyone -- without smelling -- to tell if it's leather or vinyl. The only way they can tell is if there happens to have a scratch on it then, it's an animal. And we also made bags of leather. We made both. We also made bags that sold for three dollars a long time ago. Fabric and cheaper vinyl.

GE: And all with the same name?

MS: Initially, before we got fancy. It was Make Well Leather Goods Company. And then when we got fancy, we changed it to Charisma La Sac. We even had some designers.

GE: But, whether it was the three-dollar bag or fifty dollar bag -- it all was the same brand name?

MS: The three dollar bag went out of the business. We stuck to the higher priced ones.

GE: So Marshall, you're saying that the part of the business that you oversaw more was the financial and also the sales side. How about your brother-in-law?

MS: My brother-in-law took care of the manufacturing, and also he designed some bags, and he cut samples to make the bags. We had a high-class designer in New York, called Magda McKay. We had a line of Magda McKay bags.

SC: Is that Magda McKay?

MS: The name just came out. Do you know what they asked me, "What address was I 01:06:00born at." And you know, I named it just like that.

GE: When your brother-in-law bought you out, did they stay in business for a long time?

MS: Not very long. They went bankrupt.

GE: About how many years later?

MS: About three quarters of a year. It was our difference in philosophy that he wanted, and I said we couldn't do it. He wanted to be the King -- at this point, 01:07:00we were not manufacturing any longer. We had the retail stores -- the discount stores. He wanted to be "King of the Discount Stores." We didn't have the foundation to support it.

GE: When did you stop manufacturing, and why did you stop manufacturing?

MS: About thirty-five years ago -- 1975/1980 -- somewhere in that vicinity is when we stopped manufacturing. We were of the belief -- we wanted to be "made in 01:08:00USA." We went to that for years and found competition very, very strong because they [overseas] had it made for half price. Then one year JCPenney -- these kinds of stores order six months in advance -- not like Macy's who wants it next week. JCPenney would ordinarily buy from me two, maximum three styles, because 01:09:00they couldn't put all their eggs in one basket because they bought from many people. So if somebody failed to deliver, they are not out of business. This particular year, JCPenney walked in and loved everything we had and bought thirteen styles. Thirteen styles to us was overwhelming if we are going to continue to produce for Macy's and Gimbels -- so we had to go overseas. We went overseas, and we had these thirteen bags made by a factory, and the next year is when Samsung came to us. Why? Because they have company spies. They knew every 01:10:00style we made there, how many of each color, and they felt if I could sell ours then I could sell theirs.

GE: So If I understand correctly, Samsung then became the manufacturer, and you really became the distribution channel for them?

MS: No, No, No, Samsung was a manufacturer. They couldn't sell anything. They had this idle production, they made bags for us. We still sold it on the "Charisma la Sac" -- that was it.

GE: After that, you basically gave them entry into those stores. And, they provided the merchandise for you.

MS: What they did was they bought our factory so we couldn't produce anymore. 01:11:00They bought our name, and they bought me. They wouldn't even buy my partner. But I said I wouldn't go without my partner. They said, "You sign a contract with us, and we have to send it to Korea, and if approved, you can do anything you want here -- you can hire your partner." So I had a three-year contract. After about a year and a half, I was called to their office in New Jersey -- located right before the George Washington Bridge. The President of Samsung America and 01:12:00his wife and family attended one of our Seder's here -- that's how close we were. But, an outfit like that is all business. Not necessarily smart. They called me in, and I got there maybe ten o'clock in the morning. The secretary said your partner is on the phone. He said, "Guess what? We got security here with canine dogs. Samsung has taken over the warehouse." I said, " yeah?" "What should I do?" he says. I told him to go to our lawyer, who is around the corner. 01:13:00I told him to get a "Cease and desist." I went into the meeting, and they told me very politely, "Your services are no longer necessary." So I was literally fired. Why? Well, you got us into Irving Shoes, got us into Sears, we're in J.C. Penney's, we're here, we're there, we're everywhere. Why do we need you? And they were right, providing they had inventory. But, I was dealing now with six months in advance orders. What they found out was they weren't buying Samsung, 01:14:00they were buying me -- on my word. In other words, they had explicit faith [in me], that over all these years, I delivered what and when I said I would deliver! They couldn't take the chance to find out about these guys, and they were out of business in the handbag business. The rest of the business should be mine - the sugar mines, the salt mines, they manufacture trains, everything! They were out of business. They couldn't get the business.

GE: Tell us a little bit about the Outlet Stores? When did you start that? I know you said that actually became the largest part.

MS: Yes, and by the way, in the contract that I had with Samsung, it said that I would devote my prime hours to Samsung, and I'm the one who decides what the prime hours are. I devote my attention to it, but I could run this outlet store business. And the contract was drawn up legally, so the verbiage was good. Now, what was your question?

GE: With the outlet stores, I was wondering when that started, what did that trajectory look like?

MS: I would say it started about 1965/1970.

GE: Did there seem to be any conflict? In other words, did the other stores have a problem?

MS: No. I didn't sell my merchandise or very little of my merchandise. I went into New York and just like Marshall's did -- buying excess inventory. I bought their inventory.

GE: I thought it was for your product. It wasn't for your product?

MS: Well we had some of our products there.

GE: That wasn't the bulk.

MS: We had a vast store in Reading, and we also sold luggage. We didn't manufacture the luggage, but we sold almost as much luggage as we did handbags. 01:17:00Better names.

SC: Was that the hey-day of Reading as an outlet center?

MS: When I started there, it was the one store. After I started there, they added stores - then it became their hey-day. And believe me - I got plenty of thanks from them. It was quite an accomplishment!

GE: So you were there before Lee?

MS: NO, NO, NO, Lee is VF. They had their store - a big, tremendous store. Then they put stores in all the buildings that they had.

GE: This is in the other buildings. I know that there still is a luggage store. 01:18:00That's the store you started.

MS: Right now, the President of VF there is also the President of Samsonite.

GE: Basically, you're saying that the business model was that you bought inventory -- the leftover inventory from some of the different manufacturers at the end of their season.

MS: Not necessarily at the end of their season. Whenever I walked in, they had plenty to sell.

GE: But you were able to get them at a better price.

MS: Oh, a much better price. Most of it was for cash. I used to go to Merchant's bank -- every Monday afternoon, I got $25,000.00 in cash. That's when a dollar was something. I went into New York and bought what I could. On Wednesday, I 01:19:00went back and deposited into the account what I didn't spend.

GE: Are there any other stories? Interesting stories, whether it's about the outlets or the handbag manufacturer -- that you want to share with us?

MS: Some stuff I don't want to talk about. I'll talk about... I told you the story of Samsung. I will tell you the story of the demise of our business. My 01:20:00partner wanted to expand and expand. I told him we don't have the wherewithal to do it and it's a wrong move. I told him that I would sell off the twelve stores other than VF and work VF, what do they call it today, 24-7. And, well that didn't happen, and so when I left, he started paying attention to new stores to open and he forgot about and didn't pay much attention to VF. And like I said 01:21:00before, VF was the bread and butter and the other ones were little cookies. VF was very proud of what they had. I remember walking in there with Nina about five months later, and I stood in the middle of the store, and I cried. And Nina said what's wrong. I said they are going to kick him out of here any day, and that's what happened. And that's what really triggered the demise of losing that anchor store.

But the only thing I could think of . . . nothing from him-- I'm a very even person.

GE: Yeah, how do you think the broader community, not just the Lehigh Valley, has been affected by, but even maybe the broader area has been affected by the disappearance of this industry?

MS: I think it's been affected tremendously and when I say tremendously, I am thinking tremendously. There are no more businesses like we knew back then. Mom and pop factories. There were dozens of contractors around here. They weren't handbag contractors around here, but there were blouse contractors and blouse manufacturers and bathing suit manufacturers. There was a company called Neat-Knits who manufactured women's blouses. I forget the name of the other one, 01:23:00the bathing suits, and Mark Stutz's father was in that business and It's a whole different atmosphere now. There we counted on our fingers, we wrote numbers on a piece of paper and we added them up. Now, if you don't have an iPad and a computer, you can't do anything. Yeah. And I'll tell you, we will have one of the first manufacturers that had a computer. And I respect that. But you can't rely on that to do everything for you.

GE: How about even just the economic well-being of this community? Do you think 01:24:00it's been altered or things move on.

MS: It's hard for me to say because I'm on one side of town, and I'm not affected too much about the economy over here. Not too much affected, but I've seen the other side of town, the people starving. They're on welfare, they're on food stamps, they're on unemployment. And we didn't have that back then. We sure had some minor stuff, but not the overwhelming majority. Because I know some guy is now completing his third year of unemployment, not because there isn't a job available. He makes more money on unemployment than he would make working.

The economy. Look what happened to downtown Allentown. When . . . it went to Hell. Starting with the Americus Hotel, which used to be a beautiful hotel. It gave me an opportunity. I did a lot of real estate, I bought buildings for a song downtown. When I say a song, I mean a song. Maybe it's going to pick up now with the new arena, the rebuilding of Allentown. But it's now which mall am I going to go to.

GE: Are you still involved in the real estate down there?

MS: No, I sold everything when Nina got dementia, severe dementia. I felt it's 01:26:00time to forget about that and pay attention to my wife.

SC: So were you an investor in the Americus Hotel?

MS: No, no, no, no, no. I had a building right across the street.

SC: Oh, OK.

MS: That's why that came to mind.

GE: Why do you think the Jews tended to be overrepresented in this industry?

GE: Why do you think they were maybe overrepresented in this industry as opposed to any other industry? What do you think?

MS: I mentioned something before, and I'll say it again. To get into the garment trade you didn't have to have a lot of money comparatively to start a business. You couldn't start a steel mill if you didn't have money and you couldn't start 01:27:00a department store like Hudson's, if you didn't have money. But you could buy a table, and a pair of shears, and six sewing machines, and some thread and sew up. . . sew up blouses, sew up pocketbooks, sew up anything. And Jews tend to be entrepreneurs, and not many of them had money when they came out from the other country or whatever. And this gave them an opportunity to start their own business.

GE: Good. Good.

SC: I have a couple other questions, and one of them is, what has your family valued in life most and what do you value in life most?

MS: In one word it is FAMILY. I came from Los Angeles because I told you about 01:28:00my father-in-law asking me, but also our first child was born, and I felt children deserve grandparents and grandparents deserve grandchildren. And to this day, my family is everything. Oh, certainly, friends are very important, but family is primary.

SC: And what has made you feel the most creative, artistic in a metaphoric sense, but creative in life?

MS: Slightly focused, not slightly . . . I'm very focused on numbers. I can 01:29:00manipulate numbers. For my benefit, meaning, for instance, having thirteen stores. These thirteen stores, when you go in stores, people used to pay cash. Yeah, some credit card, some check, most paid cash. Now, there's a store in Texas, there's a store in Florida. You're not there, and I could tell you, I believe, every dollar that hit a cash register went into our till. I don't know 01:30:00how many dollars didn't hit the cash register because you know employee theft is higher than customer theft. What I did was I had detectives come in to try and steal something and see how observant people were. I had-- what do they call it-- subliminal music in the stores, made and created for us.

GE: Wait a minute, for what purpose was the music?

MS: The subliminal part said stealing wins you a trip to jail. Are you by any 01:31:00chance chewing gum, and that's for the employees. Are there any bulbs out in the store? Anything I wanted to get to them that was important.

GE: Interesting.

MS: Just like when you go to the movie theater, they may blow the popcorn your way and don't they sell the Coke subliminally? Yes, they do.

But I was able to maneuver money. When I need money, people wanted to invest. I wouldn't have any of it. I would go to the bank. Work with banks. I did very well with them. In fact, the Temple that we built, they asked me to get the 01:32:00money to build it. I got a deal for the Temple, the bankers didn't believe existed. One of our members owns part of a bank, he wouldn't believe the contract that we got. I said I'll show it to you in writing when I have it. And then the Temple asked me to monitor the spending of the money and keep track of it, etc. I said, only if you let me set up my system with the. . . I wouldn't do it without it. Oh, certainly,what's the big deal? The big deal is you have 01:33:00people working for you that are going to protest. Sure enough, they did, because the checks and balances that were in there were unbelievable, and it was after, just after, two outfits,a synagogue and a JCC, I think,in Philadelphia were hit by their executive director and where a lot of money was stolen. This money that we took in, it was virtually impossible for anybody to get away with it. They might get away with it for a month until you got your statement saying you owe one hundred dollars. Well, I gave you fifty last time. Well, we don't have the 01:34:0050. That just couldn't happen. I'm very happy that we went through this over, what, a five year period or something.

Nobody said, hey, you intermingled money, where's this hundred dollars from there? So I'm good with money. In fact, my consulting business was mainly getting money for businesses from banks-- not insurance companies, not loan sharks, from banks. And when I walked in, I said,they are good for the money. I'm not saying they didn't check, you know, but they felt confident. Other times 01:35:00I said the bank could beware, but you're on your own. You know, I'm just bringing them to you.

GE: And so, in a sense, your comparative advantage or your strength that way is that you're really savvy and you really understand the inner-workings of the financial statements in a way and really understanding the money flows.

SC: And that is artistic. Yeah. Oh, that is artistic.

GE: Yeah, it is.