Irwin and Ellen Schneider, August 10, 2011

Interview with Irwin Schneider, August 10, 2011

SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER: Today is August 10th, 2011, an interview with Irwin Schneider. And we'll start, if you will, with all of your information, your name, where you live currently, and your birthdate.

IRWIN SCHNEIDER: My name is Irwin Schneider. I live in Macungie, PA, during the summer months, and I live in Florida for seven months during the winter months.

SCB: Where were you born?

IS: I was born in Brooklyn, NY, in 1931.

SCB: Can we talk a little about your family background, and then we will get back to you again. Where, what do you know about your parents, your grandparents, great-grandparents, where they came from, where they lived, and their education?

IS: Alright, my family, everyone came from Poland. My parents were born in Poland and my parents came to the United States in the early 1920s. Both came 00:01:00from Poland, and my parents immigrated to the United States, and they moved to Brooklyn. They met in Brooklyn, and they married in January of 1930. And they met and lived in Brooklyn and worked very, very hard. And my father decided to get into the garment business. He worked in NY as a foreman in a sewing factory. And in 1931, the factory that he was working for decided to move to Allentown, Pennsylvania, to get away from the union. And he was working as a foreman, and he was making $35 a week, which was a very nice salary at that time. He decided to come to Allentown to test it out, and he came to Allentown, and he didn't 00:02:00know where to go so, he went to Friday night services at Sons of Israel which was located at 6th and Tilghman Street. And he met a man with a beard, and my father was only 28 years old at the time, and I was six months old. And he introduced himself, said my name is Sam Schneider. The Factory I am working for is moving to Allentown, Pennsylvania, and I am thinking of coming to Allentown. I do not know a single soul. I do not know where to go. I am thinking of coming to Allentown, and I am at a loss at what to do and where to go. The man said you look like a nice young Jewish man. What I am going to do for you is I'll let you stay at my place. I will give you room and board. I will give you breakfast and dinner and a clean bed for five dollars a week. My father said, "Thank you so 00:03:00much." Then he took that opportunity, and that is what he did. And he stayed at this place, and he stayed there, and he worked for six days a week, and he took the train back to Brooklyn. He spent Saturday night and Sunday in New York, and then he came back to Allentown and worked six days a week. And then went back to New York for the weekends and after two months he decided this is what he is going to do. He is going to move my mother and me to Allentown. And this he did against his family's wishes. His parents and all of his relatives still were in Brooklyn, and they said, "Sam, Sam," his Jewish name was Shimon, "Shimon, Shimon, do not do this. All of your family members are in New York and Brooklyn. You are going to Allentown, and there are probably no Jewish people. There is nothing but goyim, goyim [Yiddish word for gentile]." My father said there is a 00:04:00synagogue there, and there are Jewish people there. I got to do this, I got to start, and I got to try and go there and make a living for myself. And that is what he did. And we, and he moved my mother and me down to Allentown. That is how we came to Allentown.

SCB: Do you know what his mother and father's full names were?

IS: My mother's name?

ELLEN SCHNEIDER: Your father's family.

SCB: Your father's family. What your father's mother and father's full names.

GAIL EISENBERG: Your grandparents.

ES: Your grandparents.

SCB: Yes, that would be another way to say it.

IS: My father's father's name was Avram.

ES: Or Abe.

IS: Abraham and mother's name was Lottie.

GE: And how about your parents' name?

IS: Samuel and Florence.

GE: And you said they were from Poland, do you know where in Poland?

Ellen Schneider: Not only do we know, but we visited.

GE: Oh, OK. Where?

ES: Lomza. They pronounce it womja.

IS: He was Lomza, Poland. And what town was she from, Ellen?

ES: That I don't know.

IS: That we don't know.

SCB: And you visited it?

ES: Yes, we did. We visited it.

GE: And I am also wondering, you said that "their parents were here", is that correct? In other words, when your father came here and your mother came, do you know what their experience was? Did they come by themselves or with their parents?

IS: No, when my father came here his-

ES: His sister and your grandfather were already here.

IS: That's right.

ES: They came first.

GE: Do you want to tell us a little bit about that? Do you know anything about that, when your grandfather came and your aunt?

IS: My father's father came first, and his one sister came also, and they worked 00:06:00to save some money up, so that they could later send money over so my father and his mother could come over later after the war years.

SCB: So they came before WWI.

IS: Yes, so my father's father and my father's sister came over ahead of time and then after the war.

ES: And then the war intervened, which is why there was a number of years that they did not come.

SCB: What part of Poland is that; where is that located in Poland? Was it passed between Russia and Poland, Germany, or is it in an area that was pretty much the territory of Poland, do you know?

GE: Because the borders keep changing, that's why we are wondering where that is.

ES: It was an hour outside of Warsaw. An hour east of Warsaw.

GE: OK. That is probably Poland.

ES: Oh, yes, it was definitely Poland.

GE: The reason we were asking this is because the border changed so some areas. . .

GE: My father was part of an area of Poland that before WWI was part of Russia and then after WWI is Poland and now is part of Lithuania.

ES: My mother's family, it was Austria, and then it became Poland.

IS: And when my father came over, he was a sixteen-year-old boy. Within three days, he was already working in a pocketbook factory. And there were tough days.

SCB: Did he meet, did your father's father meet his wife here in the United States?

GE: His father did but not his grandfather.

SCB: But not his grandfather. So was married when he came to the United States, your grandfather?

IS: Yes, he was.

GE: Right, right, they brought the mother right.

SCB: So, as far as your mother's family? Do you know more about your mother's family?

IS: My mother came over as a fourteen-year-old girl. My mother's family, her oldest sister, came over first and all of her sisters, her other sisters, she was one of eight sisters and all of her other sisters except for her oldest remained in Europe and they all were killed by the Germans.

SCB: Do you know your mother's maiden name? Your grandmother's maiden name, excuse me? And your mother's maiden name?

ES: I do not think you know your grandmother's maiden name. Your mother's maiden name was Schillis.

IS: Schillis.

SCB: How do you spell that, just for the future.

IS: S-C-H-I-L-L-I-S.

SCB: Do you know any stories about your family in Poland or in the United 00:09:00States? Any anecdotes that you think would help to make them come alive more?

GE: For your children and their children. And what kind of work did they do in Poland?

IS: I have no idea what kind of work they did in Poland. But when my grandfather came here, he was a presser in a garment factory.

GE: Did they leave, do you know what prompted them to leave Poland, specifically?

IS: To come over here and get a better life.

GE: OK.

IS: That was the main reason that most of the Jewish refugees came over here.

SCB: So if you can talk a little bit more about, do you have any more questions about the family's past?

GE: Do you know what kind of education your father had?

IS: He did not have any education at all.

GE: Not even a couple years in Cheder [basic Jewish education in Hebrew and 00:10:00prayer] to learn to pray.

IS: I guess he went to Hebrew School.

SCB: Any of the other people in your family, do you know what their education level was?

GE: The generation above you.

IS: They did not have any eduation at all, none. My mother came here as a fourteen-year-old child, she went to a couple years of grade school, and then after that, she went to work as a sewing machine operator.

GE: So your father was-

IS: My father came here at age sixteen, he didn't go to school at all, he went to work immediately.

GE: So your father was a presser, and your mom was-

IS: No, my grandfather was a presser.

GE: I'm sorry, your Grandfather was a presser, right, right. Your father-

SCB: In a pocketbook factory.

IS: My father when he eventually went into the garment industry, he worked his way up to become a foreman.

GE: What did he start out as?

IS: He started out work as a laborer in the garment factory and in 1931 when the 00:11:00factory left Brooklyn to come to Allentown he had gotten up to the position of a foreman making $35 dollar a week, and that was very good money, and he did not want to give that up, so he decided to try it out.

GE: Come to the Netherlands.

SCB: Cause that was in the real depths of the depression.

IS: Absolutely.

SCB: So can you talk a little bit more about your childhood? What you did? Maybe where you worked? Where you went to school?

IS: I went to Penn State University. I got a degree in commerce and finance. And during the summer years, I worked at the factory at Schneider Manufacturing. And after the graduation, I went into the Army. I was in the medical corps, and 00:12:00after I graduated from the Army, I went into the business.

GE: And that's already the '50s?

IS: I graduated from Penn State University in 1953. And then I went into the Army for two years. I got out in 1955. And then I went into the business.

SCB: Did you go to Allentown High School?

IS: I went to Allentown High School.

SCB: How about Elementary School?

IS: I went to Raub. I went to Raub for nine years.

ES: Oh, at that time, it was K to eight.

IS: Yes.

GE: Ok.

IS: It was nine years.

GE: Right, right, right.

IS: Nine years at Raub and then the tenth, eleventh and twelfth at Allentown High School.

GE: And where did you live? Where did you grow up? Where in Allentown? What neighborhood?

IS: We lived in, we grew up in the West End of Allentown.

GE: What street?

IS: We first lived on South St. Cloud Street.

GE: OK. That is between the 17th and 18th.

IS: Between 17th and 18th, and then we moved to South West Street.

GE: Ok, and South West Street, that is off of Walnut.

IS: South West Street is between 16th and 17th Street.

GE: OK, right by Temple Beth El.

IS: Yes.

GE: And what do you remember as a child, maybe some of your friends you want to name for us or? At that time, your father was still working. While you were a small child, he was still working.

IS: No, he was in business already because he went into business in 1941.

GE: In 1941, okay. So from 31 to 41, up until that time, then what was he doing, was he just a foreman?

IS: Yes.

GE: So for ten years, during those ten years, your first ten years of life. Do 00:14:00you want to share anything? Do you have any friends from that time that are still people we would know in Allentown? For example. Did you go to the JCC?

IS: During those years, I spent time, spent time. Actually, we started going to the JCC in the early, in the early 1940s at 6th and Chew Street.

GE: Is that when that was built, the 1940s?

IS: Yeah, well, it was built way before the 1940s, but the JCC then were at 6th and Chew. And some of the friends that are still around-- Irwin Greenberg.

GE: And tell me Irwin Greenberg, who was his wife?

ES: He was the President of Hess's.

IS: The President of Hess's.

GE: Okay, alright. So he grew up here.

IS: He grew up here.

GE: Ok, ok. Interesting.

IS: And another one of my closest friends was Sherwood Zilinsky, who passed away. He was the other brother of Irwin Zilinsky.

GE: Okay.

SCB: And Mr. Greenberg was on the documentary about Hess's. He spoke on Hess's. As far as being connected with the Jewish community, were you connected with the synagogue, was your family connected?

IS: Oh, yes. We have been members of Beth El since we moved into Allentown.

GE: So all the way back since 1931?

IS: Yes. I think the Temple Beth El was started around 1928, sometime around there.

GE: Probably.

IS: And we have been members since 1931, since we moved into Allentown. So we 00:16:00are long-time members of Beth El.

SCB: Was your father involved in the community at all? Did he have any connection to community organizations? Or was he mostly working in the business?

IS: He was an active member of Beth El. He was on the Board of Directors of Beth El. And he was an active member of the Locust Valley Country Club. He was one of the original charter members.

GE: Where is that? I am not familiar with that.

IS: It is not in existence anymore. It was a country club that was formed in the early 1950s, in Coopersburg, Pennsylvania.

GE: I am just wondering because this came up in another community where we spoke to people. Was there, I don't know if he was interested in becoming a member of any other country clubs, but were there any issues, did he find any social 00:17:00discrimination because he was Jewish in trying to join any country club?

IS: Not that I know. He did not try to join any other country clubs. He was very involved in the business.

GE: Okay.

SCB: So can you talk about the jobs you've had in your life? From the very first place that you made a little bit of money all the way through to the business?

IS: The only job I had prior was one year as a counselor in a camp, and then being in the Army and then going right to Schneider Manufacturing.

SCB: And what camp was that?

IS: It was a camp in, it was Blue Mountain Camp, one summer.

SCB: Was that specifically connected to the synagogue, or was it a general camp?

IS: No, it was a summer camp in the Pocono Mountains. So basically, I have had no other employers besides the U.S. Army and Schneider Manufacturing.

GE: Schneider Manufacturing began when you were like ten years old.

IS: Yes.

GE: Do you want to share with us a little bit about how the business got started?

IS: Alright. How the business got started. My father, my father, actually in 1941 borrowed five hundred dollars to start the business and buy six sewing machines. And he started it in Pearl Harbor week. He started with six employees, and he took one of the employees from the business that he had been working for, a teenager named Valeria Lukish, who was a very promising girl, who had a lot of 00:19:00potential. She was a combination sewing machine operator and a floor girl, and she eventually rose to the position of plant manager. And this woman today is 97 years old. She is still alive. And I visit her occasionally, she's sort of in dementia and is very feeble, and she barely recognizes me, and I still get to see her once in a while. But anyway, the business started in 1941 during Pearl Harbor week, and my father started with six sewing machines. He borrowed the five hundred dollars to start the business. And the first manufacturer that gave him work was Bob Sussman. His son is Fred Sussman, who lives here in Allentown. He is a member of Temple Beth El, Fred and Barbara Sussman. And my father started with Bob Sussman and luckily he got started at the right time. He 00:20:00prospered, and each year, he got more and more work in with various manufacturers, and each year got more and more equipment, machinery. And did very, very well. And by the time I came into the business in 1955, he had about a hundred and ten machines already. He was doing quite well. And my father was a hustler and a pusher, and this girl, Valeria Lukish, wound up as a plant manager.

SCB: The Sussmans, were they manufacturers?

IS: They were manufacturers.

SCB: And were they out of Allentown or New York?

IS: Their main office was in New York, but they were giving work to contractors in Allentown.

SCB: And they lived in Allentown?

IS: Yes, the Sussmans lived in Allentown.

SCB: Wow. That is unusual.

IS: Yes, Bob Sussman lived in Allentown on South 16th Street.

SCB: And what kind of clothing did they make when your dad owned it?

IS: They were making knitwear.

SCB: So knitwear for women?

IS: Yes, for women.

SCB: Were there certain labels they were making the knitwear for? Specifically, or was it more general?

IS: More general.

SCB: And so they would be shipped up to New York.

IS: Yes.

SCB: Could you talk a little bit about the process that your dad had. Do you know anything about the processes that he used, the way he organized the business and the manufacturing?

IS: In what respect?

SCB: So how did he go about it, did he have certain people as cutters? Did he have people, women, probably. Did he hire men? What was the factory like under him?

IS: In the beginning, he just had sewers and sewing equipment. As he got a little larger, he opened up a cutting room, and he hired cutters and spreaders. And he would get piece goods in and get a cutting department in. Then cutting and sewing and then opened up a finishing department with pressers and finishers and shippers and so on. And then, we made the complete product from cutting up to finishing and packing and shipping.

GE: Now, I am curious when you said that happened when he got more business. You said initially they just did sewing.

IS: Right.

GE: If they just did the sewing, did they partner, did they have to then provide, did they then get, whatever has to occur for you to sew, there's 00:23:00something that happens before-

IS: The work would come in already cut.

SCB: Did the person that provided that, was it a manufacturer? Was it the Sussmans? Another factory or another organization that did the cutting?

IS: Yes.

SCB: Do you know any of the names of the cutters? That was when you were a kid.

IS: I have no idea.

SCB: Of course not, but I thought I would ask anyway. How did it change when, or did it change when you took over the business?

IS: When I came into the business, he already had a full-fledged operation going on, a full-fledged from cutting, shipping, and packing, the full operation going.

SCB: So it did not expand at all after you took over?

IS: It expanded in volume, the number of people, the number of employees. When I came into the organization, we expanded, and we gradually built it up, and when I came into the business in 1955 we kept expanding and getting larger and larger. And a couple years later in 1957 my father said, "Irwin, you are doing such a great job in here, in two year you already know everything, I do not even have to be here anymore," he said. "I am going to retire to Florida. I am going to move to Florida. I will remain the president of the corporation, and you are going to take over the everyday duties of running the factory. What I'm going to do is, I am going to call you every Friday afternoon, you are going to tell me everything you shipped, how many dozens went out, what the volume was and what you are going to do is send me my paycheck for the week. And I will speak to you 00:25:00every week. Once a quarter I will come up for a couple days and walk around the factory, check and see what you are doing. Then I will fly back to Florida, and that is the way we will do it."

SCB: Sounds like a nice business relationship, too.

IS: I ran the factory, and he was very, very pleased. And this woman, Valeria Lukish, who we talked about who was a teenager back in 1941 who he felt would eventually be a plant manager, he saw that she was very talented as a seventeen-year-old teenager. Anyway, so the factory actually grew in size and numbers while I was there, and we eventually grew to about 230 to 240 people at its peak.

GE: About when is that - 1960?

IS: 1960s and 1970s.

SCB: As far as your learning the business, where did you start, and how did you 00:26:00go through that until your father got to the point that you knew everything I am going to retire?

IS: Well, when I went in in 1955, I started to grasp everything pretty quickly within the two year period.

GE: But you were, tell us about your involvement prior to that. I think you said you worked there during the summers.

IS: Yes, during the summers, I would work for him.

GE: Actually one thing I was curious, how about the 1930s? I realize your Dad didn't open his own factory until 1941. But during the 1930s how was the garment industry? There was the Depression, but was the garment industry in depression, or was that still a thriving industry?

IS: I do not think it was thriving. It was struggling, it was growing, but it was struggling.

SCB: And during those summers then, did you work at specific machines or did you 00:27:00just learn - and I shouldn't say "just" - learn the management of the business without being involved in the various processes to understand what people were doing?

IS: Actually I spent a little time in the office, a little time on the sewing floor, a little time in the cutting room, a little time in every area of the business. Trying to pick up a little bit.

SCB: So you were managing mostly?

IS: Not actually management, my father had me in every single department trying to pick up.

SCB: So did you actually operate, go through the process in the department? And the reason I am asking this is because in some of the textile industries in Philadelphia in the 19th century the son would be brought in and would have to go through every process and learn every process so he would learn how to do everything.

GE: So he would actually work on a press.

SCB: Right, do everything, and learn all the skills.

IS: I did not. Actually, I did not actually sit on a sewing machine, I did not actually go to the cutting room and use any of the cutting equipment.

SCB: So it was more observation and watching.

IS: Observation, right.

SCB: Watching what worked and what didn't.

IS: Right, right.

SCB: Do you have any memories of those times and stories?

GE: And even the interactions with the employees?

IS: I had a very good relationship with the employees. They loved me. I worked very good with them. I had a nice relationship with them. I treated them very, very well.

ES: Can I interject something?

SCB: Certainly!

ES: He still does to this day. There is a group, now these are elderly ladies by now, but there is a group of them who still meet once a month for lunch, they go 00:29:00to the City View Diner.

IS: On Seventh Street.

ES: And in the summertime when Irwin is home, he comes there and joins them once or twice.

SCB: Wonderful.

ES: They love it.

SCB: Was there a specific ethnic group that were the workers in the factory or was it the diversity of ethnicity in Allentown?

IS: Diversity, a lot of Pennsylvania Dutch. And I would say the last several years in business we had quite a few Vietnamese girls, quite a few Vietnamese girls, and they were the best sewing machine operators we've ever had. They were so wonderful. And I was the only one in town that had any Jewish sewing machine operators. There were a total of three Jewish sewing machine operators in 00:30:00Allentown, and I had all three of them.

GE: Now this, when you say Jewish sewing machine operators, what that in the '40s?

IS: No, No, they were the last 10 years I was in business.

GE: Ok, ok. So 60s and 70s, I was just curious.

SCB: So the Vietnamese women, when did they come? Did they come after 1973, mostly?

IS: The Vietnamese operators were there in the last 15 years I was in business.

SCB: When did you actually stop?

IS: 1988, I sold the business. The Vietnamese operators I had were the best. They used to beg me for so much overtime. When we were very, very busy, they would work every single hour that I would give them, and they would say they would call me "Mr. Bossman." "Mr. Bossman, give me more overtime, more overtime, more overtime." Sometimes when we very busy, I would have to beg the American 00:31:00girls to work overtime, and the Vietnamese girls they would work all the overtime and then some. They would beg me and beg me.

GE: That is why this industry exists so well in China.

SCB: So, in those years with managing and owning the business or managing for your Dad, how long did your Dad live by the way?

IS: He lived until 1978.

SCB: So those last years that this was your business, you owned the business solely. So do you have any memories of times there were struggles? Or times that were absolutely wonderful where you had lots of contracts and were really thriving?

SCB: Today is August 10, 2011, interview with Irwin Schneider. Susan Clemens, and Gail Eisenberg attending.

GE: Sue, we did not get this little bit. Is that correct?

SCB: Yes.

GE: So I am going to let you read the whole thing. So just as you did, you did it so beautifully, if you will go back, so we have the opportunity for your family to have this and for us to have this. Yes, read these same things again because we just did not capture it.

IS: This is something from Rance Block who was President of Beth El in March of 1988:

Dear Employees of Irwin Schneider,

The officers and Congregation at Temple Beth El acknowledges with gratitude your generous donation made in honor of Irwin Schneider. The funds will be placed in the Samuel Schneider Philanthropic fund. This contribution shows the esteem in which Irwin Schneider is held by all his former employees. I am sure that Mr. Schneider is deeply touched and appreciative of this gesture. Once again, thanks for your generosity.

Sincerely,

Rance Block

President

Here's also in the Temple Beth El bulletin of March of 1988:

Donation made to the Samuel Schneider Philanthropic fund of Temple Beth El in honor of Irwin Schneider for all the years of love and understanding he has given to us, his employees, Mr. and Mrs. Anthony Geiger, bookkeeper, Mr. and Mrs. Anthony Kein, production manager, the girls in his office, Mr. and Mrs. Michael Lukish, general manager.

This is something I did February 1, 1977. I wrote this letter, and each and every one of the girls who retired got a letter like this. I will read the letter that I wrote:

Dear So and So,

The bicentennial year of 1976 was a very important milestone in our nation's 00:34:00history, it was the 200th birthday celebration of the United States. The year 1976 was also a very important one for the Schneider Manufacturing Corporation, as this marked the 35th anniversary of our being in business. These 35 years of continued growth would not have been possible without the loyal and dedicated support of our many hundreds of employees throughout the years. In tribute to the service of our most recent retirees, we are backtracking to our celebration year of 1976 and to this year of 1977 and presenting each of you with a fifty dollar retirement savings bond which will set a precedent for all union employees retiring in the future. This savings bond is in addition to the 00:35:00monthly retirement check you are presently receiving from the ILGWU. These checks are the result of retirement contributions that we have sent to ILGWU throughout the years based upon your payroll earnings. Our very best wishes for your continued good health, and please feel free to visit us at any time.

Very Truly Yours,

Schneider Manufacturing Corporation

Irwin J. Schneider

SCB: That is very nice.

IS: I also want to read the press release. This is the press release sent out by Chambers Association Advertising Public Relations Company on Linden Street in Allentown. The press release that was going to be sent out to the Allentown Morning Call.

A 47-year-old Allentown apparel manufacturing firm has a new name and a new 00:36:00owner, assuring the continued employment of more than a hundred and twenty-five men and women. Schneider Manufacturing Company, 315 Linden Street, has been purchased from Irwin J. Schneider by Robert Marzano of Whitehall, and is now Linden Apparel Company. Marzano, who is also President of JoMar Manufacturing in Alburtis, stated that ownership of the Schneider Firm increases his ability to continue to make a better line of ladies knits sportswear, and to expand both the Linden and JoeMar operations. JoeMar, with its 50 employees, is too small to compete alone in the better knits field, he said, so Linden will reinforce our Alburtis plant's production. Schneider pointed out that the sale of his firm involved two second-generation apparel makers. His father, the late Sam Schneider, founded the company at 8th and Pittston Streets in Allentown in 1941, 00:37:00with six employees. Marzano's father, Joseph, who is now retired, founded JoMar in 1957 on North 8th Street in Allentown. Schneider Manufacturing moved to 315 Linden Street in 1942 and grew to 230 employees at its peak in the late 1970s, making it Lehigh Valley's largest contract manufacturing. Irwin Schneider joined his father in 1955 after serving with the US Army medical corp. A native of New York City, he earned a bachelor's degree in commerce and finance at Penn State University. He is a former vice-president and treasurer of the Lehigh Valley Needle Trades Association and served on the Executive Committee of the Allentown Lehigh County Chamber of Commerce Manufacturing Division. JoMar moved to North Wall Street Allentown, a location that was closed when the Alburtis plant was 00:38:00opened in 1974. Marzano is a native of New York City and graduate of Parkland High School. He served in the US Navy for two years before joining his father in 1960. Past president of the Lehigh Valley Needle Trades Association in Allentown, also the Optimist's District Lieutenant Governor.

Schneider stated that he decided to sell his company, which makes ladies knit and woven sportswear, because he wanted to pursue other business interests. "I wanted to make sure the company would be a going concern that would preserve the jobs of our people. I searched for a buyer who was experienced in the industry and who shared with me a commitment to the needle trades." Schneider added that it was through working together as board members of Needle Trades Association that he developed a rapport with Bob Marzano. A mutual respect for each other's business abilities followed. He stated, "It was fortuitous that my search for a 00:39:00buyer coincided with Bob's desire to expand his operations." Schneider emphasized that, in his opinion, tighter quotas and shorter cycle times have given the domestic apparel industry a new lease on life. He know that smaller lots is a definite advantage over plants in the Orient and other offshore areas.

SCB: Because you were more flexible?

IS: Yes.

GE: Or willing to do a niche.

SCB: Right.

IS: So I had a successful run in the garment industry. I was very happy with the years I was in the industry. I did very, very well, and I feel that it was time to move on to other areas, so I was happy I had a good run, and I moved on.

GE: What did happen? Do you know with the company that bought this, how have they fared? I am just wondering that...

IS: Well he was able to keep the company going for ten years. I was happy that 00:40:00my employees had jobs for a while, but he struggled for a while. It was not that he was not a good businessman, it was a condition of the times. A lot of work was being funneled overseas. He did struggle a bit, and he did have to keep on shrinking the company, keep on making it smaller and smaller, as I had to do the last couple years that I was in business. I also had to shrink the business down, this was just a condition of the times. There was not enough work that was available, the company that I worked for exclusively for a number of years, Beeline Fashions, on the house party plan. I'd worked for them exclusively for well over 25 years, and they kept me busy going day and night time, full time. And they kept me as busy as I could be.

GE: Can you tell us both about that business, Beeline Business, as well as were you their sole supplier?

IS: No, I was not their sole supplier.

GE: But they were your sole customer.

IS: Yes.

GE: But if you could share with us if you could tell us about the Beeline 00:41:00Business and then also what were the years you were saying you had that contract for 25 years and how that really helped your whole business?

IS: Well, we were starting to do some business with Beeline starting in the late 1950s, and the relationship started to work out very, very nicely. They started growing very, very fast, very, very quickly and we got a nice relationship with them, and we saw that they were increasing their business so fast and so quickly. It was the era of stay-at-home moms. Mothers were not going to work at that time, they were having house party plans. They were selling garments. They would have a house party, coffee clutch. They would invite maybe 15 to 18 women at a house, and they would have catalogs and garments on display, and they would 00:42:00order garments through catalogs and through sample garments on display. And their business was mushrooming like crazy, and Beeline was expanding so quickly. We had about two or three other accounts, and we dropped them because Beeline was after us for our entire production, and they said give us your entire production, and we will keep you busy. We will keep you busy going day and night. We expanded our night shift, we started working our employees full time, overtime, Saturday mornings. We gave our employees as much time as they could handle. And we even went into a real-estate partnership with Beeline, we bought another building in order to expand our operations. We worked exclusively with them for well over 25 years, so we didn't have to go into New York looking for other work, they came to us. They just piled us up with so much work; it was 00:43:00just mind-boggling. It was an unbelievable setup that we had with them, they were pushing us and pushing us, "Please give us more production, please add more operators, please give." And they were giving us the bulk of the work that they were giving us the most difficult styles because our quality was top notch. It was a nice little gravy train. So it worked out very, very well for us.

GE: When did it end? Like how long did that go until?

IS: It is hard to end. I would say in the early 1980s when their business started to go downhill, and they eventually went out of business. And then in the early 1980s, after they went out of business, I had to start going into New York looking for other work. At one point in the early 1980s I was probably 00:44:00working for six or seven different manufacturers at one time, and that started to make it a little bit rough at that point.

SCB: The organization changes, doesn't it?

IS: At that point, business was getting a little bit tougher, and more and more stuff was going overseas, and I found out going to New York, it was tougher finding work. And then when I would get the work, I would find that prices were tougher, and margins were very, very tight, profits were getting smaller and smaller. My organization was getting smaller, and I was not hiring any new people. As my employees were retiring, I was not replacing them, and my organization was shrinking, and my employee base was getting smaller and smaller. By the time I did sell out to Bob Marzano, I did not have the 230 people I did once. I had, I was probably down to 130 people or 120 people at 00:45:00that point.

SCB: Did you have to lay anyone off or did you just downsize.

IS: Just downsize--

SCB: Downsize by attrition.

IS: Yes, by attrition. I saw the handwriting on the wall, but thankfully I had enough good years that I was thankful I was in the garment business, but I did see the handwriting on the wall. You know my son during his college years would spend the summers in the factory learning the business the same way that I did, and he was willing, he wanted to come into the business, but after a couple summers in the business, Ellen and I steered him away. We said you know if you would come into the business, we feel that by the time you were in the business about seven or eight years, you would maybe be 28 or 29 years old, we feel the business would not be a viable business for you, and you will be out in the 00:46:00street looking for something else. And we coaxed him and told him it is not a good idea to come into the business.

GE: How lucky he was.

IS: Yes. And Ellen and I--

ES: He listened to parents.

IS: Ellen and I said we ought to shift your interests elsewhere, and we coaxed him into going on for a Master's Degree in business. He went to George Washington University and got a Master's degree and eventually went into New York and became a stockbroker for several years and then got another job with another organization, and he is doing very well. He is a head trader with a financial institution. That worked out well.

GE: Right.

SCB: To go back to Beeline, did they like Tupperware and other organizations that were based on a party system, did they give you orders that were based on the orders they got or did they have you producing on projected orders?

IS: They were based on orders that they had. They had a large volume.

GE: Were they doing this door to door all over the country? Were these house parties all over the country?

IS: Pretty much so.

GE: And what kind of clothing were they, were they knit?

IS: Yes.

GE: So they were like women's pants suits?

ES: That is exactly right.

GE: I remember that type of thing, I just do not remember the house parties.

IS: Such volume it was unbelievable.

SCB: Can we go back and could you talk for a minute about what your dad produced during World War II for the war effort? What kind of garments did he produce, the t-shirts?

IS: I know he made a lot of t-shirts for one company that had a contract with the army, plus he made work for other jobbers too, but I am not sure too much 00:48:00because I was only a youngster. I was not really familiar. But he had other contracts.

SCB: But he was a war industry then.

IS: Yes. And it is sad to say that he had to have the war to expand his business.

GE: That is the reality.

IS: But he got in at the right time and for a man who did not have any education.

GE: He was obviously business savvy.

IS: Business savvy, yes.

GE: He was at the right time and he knew how to make an opportunity work.

ES: He had street smarts.

GE: Yeah.

ES: He did.

SCB: Can you talk a little bit about how the union came into your business, so going back to women how as you mentioned off-camera, were happy with the business and they were getting union wages, but the truckers pushed that, pushed 00:49:00the union, the International Ladies Garment Workers Union?

GE: Were really aggressive. Do you want to just share that with us again? We just didn't capture it.

IS: From what I understand, the union was actually going to the girls' houses at night and saying that the Schneider Manufacturing should go union because a very large majority of the factories in Allentown are all unionized, and you would be better off with the union. A lot of the girls were saying we do not need the union because Sam and Irwin Schneider are good employers, they are paying us basically the same wages as union shops are paying, and they are also paying us vacations, they're also paying us holidays, so there is no need for us to join the union. So you ought to leave. We don't have to join the union. And the union was flabbergasted by the employees saying no to them when they were going to the employees' houses. So what the union did they got the whole of the truckers, 00:50:00like Arrow Trucking Company and Silverline Trucking Company company just to name two of the truckers and said look you have to work along with us and just prevent the trucks from coming in to deliver piece goods and prevent the trucks from coming in and delivering the cutwork and stop work from coming in to Schneider Manufacturing factory. If the trucks don't come in, Schneider Manufacturing can't exist, and they will be forced to join the union, and that is what happened. After a week or two or three of this happening we were forced to join the union. And the girls said why are you joining the union, and we said, "we are forced to," we told them.

SCB: Did any of them try to infiltrate the factory? That sounds like a very negative terminology. Did any of the union organizers or people interested in the union try to come into the factory and work in the factory? Or was it only at night?

IS: They tried to come into the factory too, but it didn't help.

GE: I was wondering, excuse me, were you finished? I was wondering with Beeline, how was that original association formed? How was that developed?

IS: Okay, we were working with a jobber in New York under the name of the Golder Company, Golder Company and Climax Specialties. This jobber had two names, Golder and Climax Specialties, and they had the contact with Beeline Fashions, and we got the initial contact with this Golder Climax Company, and they were involved with Beeline, and they got the work for us.

GE: BeeLine did well?

IS: And when Beeline got busy, and we were given the opportunity to work for them full time, we gave up the other two accounts we had. It was the start, the best thing that ever happened to us. As Beeline grew, we grew. The faster 00:52:00Beeline grew, the faster we grew. And Beeline eventually became a public corporation. They went on the NASDAQ. We also bought shares of Beeline, and we made a fortune with the shares that we bought, we got in on the initial public offering too.

GE: That is wonderful.

SCB: So did the women ever ask for flex time, for instance if they had families? Did they ever ask to have time off during their workday? Was there flexibility about the hours that the women worked?

IS: Oh yes, we would give, we worked along with them. Our regular hours were from seven to two-thirty, and overtime was usually from two-thirty to four-thirty. If they had problems we let them come in at eight or eight-thirty. We worked with them. And another thing, we were like a savings and loan 00:53:00association, in other words we, my bookkeeper was not too happy about it, it made extra work for her, but we would lend the employees money with no interest and have a payroll deduction plan of five dollars a week for fifty weeks or. . . it was unbelievable I was so good to the employees. I mean, I had such a good rapport with the employees. In fact as Ellen said to this day there are a number of employees that are in their eighties and nineties, a lot of them, and they have these weekly lunches, excuse me monthly lunches at the City View diner on North 7th Street, the third Thursday of every month and during the summer I go to one or two of these lunches, and needless to say, I pick up the tab for the whole group. They just love me, I come there, and they hug me and kiss me. It is a nice unbelievable situation.

GE: Irwin, what would you say are the reasons that you offered and provided your employees, tried to have that better working environment for them? In other words, what were the convictions you have that you think brought about that you did treat your employees well? That made sure they had decent wages--

IS: To keep them in tow, to keep them from leaving me.

GE: Okay.

IS: I mean, I mean--

GE: So you are saying it was a good business decision?

IS: Yes, a good business decision--

GE: Happy employees.

IS: Happy employees, have a low turnover because if you have a low turnover--

GE: You do not have to keep retraining--

IS: No training expenses.

SCB: Did the technology change over the years when you were the sole owner of the business? So did you get more sophisticated machinery?

IS: Yes, newer equipment, newer equipment, faster equipment, new different types 00:55:00of equipment.

GE: Were you constantly updating?

IS: Oh, yes, sure. I always had top-notch mechanics on my payroll. I was always buying new equipment, new machinery that came out. I was always on top of everything.

SCB: So the mechanics would fix the machinery--

IS: Oh yeah.

SCB: But then if they knew something or you knew something was going to speed up the production and make it more--

IS: We always went to trade shows. My mechanics went to trade shows. We had good equipment, the best equipment. We always had modern equipment too.

SCB: And you were a member, you were an officer in the Needle Trades Workers Organization--

IS: The Lehigh Valley, I was a member of the Lehigh Valley Needle Trades, which was formed in the late 1950s. This was an association that was strictly for public relations, and I was also a member of the Atlantic Apparel Contractors 00:56:00Association, with Arnold Delin. You interview Arnold Delin?

GE: Yes.

IS: By the way, he is very sick.

SCB: Oh, no.

IS: Arnold Delin, he looked very thin when you saw him?

SCB: Yes, he did.

IS: He's had a lot of health problems, a lot of health issues. Arnold Delin, when I joined the association in our peak years the association had about 450 members. And we had a headquarters in Wind Gap, a regular building and Arnold Delin would do the negotiations for the contracts for our association. It was a powerful association, and we had wonderful conventions overseas, in Italy, in Hawaii. We had great trips that used to be charged off to the business. Arnold Delin was quite a guy. Also with the Lehigh Valley Needle Trades Association we 00:57:00took some good trips, too. One year we went to, we went to Europe--

ES: It was a trade mission.

IS: Describe the trade mission, Ellen.

ES: It was a trade mission. And they--

IS: Why don't you come here so you can be televised.

ES: I will sit next to you.

IS: OK.

ES: It was a trade mission where we went to Europe, and they were all from the Lehigh Valley, and we visited, how many?

IS: Five countries and seven apparel factories.

ES: Right. And it ended up in Basel, Switzerland, which was-- The latest machinery.

IS: Tradeshow.

ES: Yes, the tradeshow.

ES: And after the business was sold, we were taking a trip to the Orient for a number of weeks, and we went through the state department.

IS: In Washington.

ES: Yes, this was in 1988.

IS: And Arnold Delin worked for us.

ES: And got us permission to visit a Chinese garment factory, and we did.

IS: Arnold Delin had to ask permission from the State Department in Washington because, in 1988, China was not so liberal.

ES: And we went in, and there was a whole delegation there that was meeting us. They took us around to their factory, and we were immediately struck by the youth of their employees. They were women, and they were all young. And then they took us downstairs and they showed us their daycare center, right on the premises. Infants, they had them all lined up, all bundled up, it was nap time when we were there. But we were immediately struck by the differences between 00:59:00the Oriental manufacturing and the United States.

GE: Tell us, describe to us some of the differences.

ES: Well, first of all, the age of the employees was far younger than ours. Ours were middle-aged and-

IS: Older.

ES: And older workers, these were all young twenty-something, thirty-something women. The quality of the goods was excellent, and they were very speedy, they were working very quickly. We also made note of the fact that the factory floor looked very clean because we also went to an acupuncture place where it was the dirtiest thing I ever saw in my life. And I said the factory was cleaner than 01:00:00the acupuncture place.

GE: At that time the women in the factories were already older, but how about when you were a child looking at your father's business or when you first went into the business was it typically young women, or was it more middle-aged?

IS: I think it was more middle-aged.

ES: It was not a young person's business. While I was listening to him talk about Beeline and the fact that Beeline did eventually go out of business, and you have to wonder if that didn't reflect a change in the workforce of women. When they started that business, he said they were stay-at-home at mothers back in the fifties and the sixties, by the time the seventies and the eighties came around-

IS: The mothers were all working.

ES: They were all working.

IS: The house plan part fell apart.

ES: Right. So there was a lot of tenor of the times kind of thing.

GE: It had a business model that worked well for the '50s and '60s, but as time went on, less and less.

ES: For a while, but it didn't change. Or their business model didn't change with the time, they kept it as it was, and as a result, they went out of business.

SCB: And so in the '70s did you have a sense that the sort of stagflation of the '70s, the economic woes of the '70s, did that affect you at all? Or because of the Beeline products, did that keep you going?

IS: The Beeline kept me going, but I saw on the outside, I saw that if I ever lost the Beeline account that I would start to be in a little bit of trouble. I saw what other contractors were facing. I saw other contractors in Allentown 01:02:00that were struggling. And I thought if I ever lose the Beeline account would I be in the same position as some of the others. Well Beeline was still fairly busy yet in the '70s, but by the very late seventies Beeline was starting to struggle. They went out of business in the very late seventies. And so by 1980 or '81 or '82, then Beeline was out of business, and I started to have to run to New York looking for work for the first time in twenty-seven or twenty-eight years. Which was something new for me to do.

SCB: Today is August 10th, 2011, tape three, interview with Irwin Schneider, and Susan Clemens-Bruder and Gail Eisenberg interviewing and attending. If we could go back and if you could talk a little bit about your involvement with the 01:03:00community and with the synagogue and the Jewish community and the greater Allentown community, are there organizations other than what you showed us here that you belonged to and connected you to the community?

IS: Ok as far as the organizations, I have been on the board of directors of the Temple Beth El. I have also served on the endowment foundation of the Temple Beth El. I have been on the six-man investment committee of the Endowment Foundation of the Temple Beth El. Now those are all in the past already. And also I have been on the committee . . . Board of Directors of the Jewish Family 01:04:00Service. I was also the Treasurer of the Jewish Family Service. I was also on the Russian Resettlement committee and I was very active with Jewish Family Services. This goes back a number of years ago. Also, I was on the Board of Directors of the Jewish Federation of Allentown. And also a solicitor for many, many years. So I was very involved with those three organizations.

SCB: When you say solicitor, can you explain that a little bit more?

ES: Fundraising.

SCB: Fundraising.

GE: Asking for donations.

IS: Yeah.

SCB: And that is just because language changes over time.

GE: Actually, one thing that might be nice to share is to tell us what you mean about the Russian resettlement.

IS: Well back around 20 years ago, at that point we were bringing a lot of 01:05:00Russian families into Allentown, I was on the committee and I was also the treasurer and dispensing money for the Russian resettlement. We were actually paying their expenses for their first four months. Taking care of the Russians and I was helping out with the funds and also helping out placing them, placing them with their various families in Allentown. And so I was on the committee bringing them in.

ES: We visited with a family in St. Petersburg who had family here, some of the newly arrived Russians. And we visited with them, and we knew that they were on the list to come to Allentown. And they did come to Allentown, and we met them here, and we took them -- these people were two days out of St. Petersburg, and 01:06:00we took them to the Giant supermarket.

GE: And they were shocked.

IS: Yes, they were shocked.

ES: And we told them now you are going to go and buy things for your home. They absolutely did not know what to do.

IS: They were shocked.

ES: They thought it was artwork.

GE: Something that was not real.

ES: Absolutely, that was--.

GE: What was the family's name?

ES: It's Nellie Gerstein's parents. Margaret.

IS: We visited them in Russia.

ES: We visited them in Russia, we visited Vladimir's family and Nellie's family.

IS: And Nellie's mother, Margaret.

ES: And they had us to their home for lunch, and they were toasting us and saying that you are the only link between we and our children, and they were translating. We said that when you come, and you are on the list, and when you come to Allentown, we will host you in our home, and we did. We had them for a 01:07:00Thanksgiving dinner. We were explaining to them what Thanksgiving was.

SCB: Was this connected to the synagogue?

ES: It was connected to the Jewish Family Service.

SCB: Jewish Family Services.

IS: We always tried to stay involved with the Jewish activities. In fact, Ellen was also involved with the Jewish Community Center.

ES: I was President of the Women's Auxiliary of the Jewish Community Center for four years. I served on the Board of the Jewish Community Center for about 15 years. And I went back to college after my children were grown and got a degree in social work, and then I was asked to join the staff of the Jewish Community Center, and I ran their senior adult program for 15 years.

GE: What years were those? About?

ES: About-- probably from about 1978 until...

IS: Until 1992, when we went to Florida.

ES: Yes, until we went to Florida.

SCB: How has the wider community of Allentown changed over the years? And how has the Jewish Community changed over the years in Allentown?

IS: How has it changed over the years, well definitely it has, the Jewish community over the years, it was more--

ES: Cohesive.

IS: Cohesive. One section was actually down in the 6th Street area, 6th Street, 5th Street, 4th Street, 3rd Street, and another section was strictly down 6th 01:09:00Street and Fulton Street, and that was called the ghetto, and basically nobody was out in the West End area. And then, after the war years the Jewish community started to filter out towards the West End of Allentown, toward 24th Street, 25th Street, 26th [and] 27th Street. Of course all of the Jewish community were living inside the city limits of Allentown. It wasn't until I would say until the last 15 to 20 years that they started to move outside of the city limits of Allentown. And during the early years all of the Jewish kids went to Allentown High School, now you do not see a single Jewish student going to Allentown High School. I think in the last issue of Hakol, I saw one Jewish student graduating from Allentown High School. All the rest are in the various area high schools outside of Allentown.

SCB: Parkland?

IS: Parkland and Emmaus.

ES: The other thing that I have noticed is primarily because of the garment industry, which was a family business, a father to son business, and Irwin's story is not unique in that the next generation did not go in. As a result, young people have not stayed in the area.

IS: Young people are going to New York and big cities now.

ES: Any kind of big cities, but they are not remaining in Allentown.

IS: In Allentown, they are leaving.

ES: I think that has been the biggest change in the Jewish community.

SCB: But some new people have come to it?

ES: New people have come in.

IS: A lot of professionals are coming, doctors, especially doctors. We have a load of doctors, professionals, lawyers coming in.

ES: The high school- the hospital rather is quite a draw. It is the larger employer in the Valley right now. It is. And that has been the draw and that I 01:11:00think has been one of the biggest changes that we have seen in the 50 odd years we have been here.

GE: In some ways, it is more transient in terms that they didn't grow up here, they come here--

ES: Yes, they come here. It has been and so many of our friends who remained here, none of their children have.

IS: But we've got other cities, we have friends like from Pottsville and Hazleton, those cities are dying with Jewish people. There is nothing left in those cities.

GE: You remember them having small but thriving communities like 30 to 40 years ago, is that correct?

IS: 30 years ago, they had thriving communities and synagogues, but now they are dying out completely. No Jewish people are there anymore.

SCB: So, what do you value the most in life?

IS: Value most in life, my family, the fact that I have a nice family that I am proud of how we raised our children. I mean we have wonderful children. They are well-educated. We have grandchildren, they've been raised so wonderful. They do not have tattoos, rings in their ears. They are well-educated. They are loving children. They call us often, they are just so wonderful. Our kids are just such great kids. We have good family values with our children, we raised them well, and our grandchildren are just super kids in general.

ES: I would say one of the nicest things I can see is, you spoke of the family values, watching our children passing those same family values on to their children.

GE: And what would you say those values are?

ES: Honoring your past, staying...

IS: Close with parents.

ES: Close with parents, staying Jewish.

IS: YES!

ES: Yes.

IS: Staying Jewish, staying close with Temple, staying close with Jewish holidays.

ES: They all belong to a synagogue.

IS: Yes, they all belong to a synagogue, they all have Jewish traditions at home, and so on.

SCB: And what has made you feel the most creative in life, the most artistic in life and this can be more metaphoric, it doesn't have to be concrete but giving you a sense of connectedness in life?

GE: Have you felt you have been artistic or made a difference, productive?

IS: I do not know how to answer that.

ES: Artistic talent kinda doesn't run in our family.

GE: Doesn't have to be literally.

SCB: But a sense of completion is another way to say it. It doesn't have to be 01:14:00art, but just a sense of completion.

IS: The fact that I have done well in life, that I have had a successful life.

ES: That you have been respected.

IS: That I have been respected by my peers, that people look up to me, my employees look up to me. That I have a wealth of good friends, a load of friends in Allentown who we socialize with who look up to me, and I look up to them. The fact that I do not have a single enemy in town, people respect Irwin Schneider. I have such a good name in town, a good name in the synagogue.

GE: So maybe a good name?

IS: My good name will live forever. That's what is important to me. Nobody, nobody in town has a bad word for Irwin Schneider, from my employees on down to everybody. That's important to me, very important.

SCB: Thank you so much. Ellen, so may we talk to you now?

ES: Absolutely.

SCB: And we will go back in your history.

ES: Goodness.

SCB: So could you tell your full name, including your maiden name, when you were born, and where you were born?

ES: Alright. My name is Ellen Schneider, Ellen Ross Schneider.

GE: I'm sorry, was that Ross, R-O-S-S?

ES: R-O-S-S. Yes, Ross was my maiden name. I was born in New York, and at the age of ten, my family moved to Williamsport, Pennsylvania, which is a very small town in the middle of Pennsylvania.

GE: I am sorry, when were you born?

ES: In 1936, I am 75 years old. I will help you out with your math. And I was raised in Williamsport, Pennsylvania.

GE: Why did the family move there?

ES: My father opened a business in Williamsport.

SCB: Now, were you in Brooklyn?

ES: In Brooklyn.

SCB: You were in Brooklyn and then moved.

ES: Right. Back in the day, Brooklyn was a very lovely middle-class Jewish area, and people were raised very nicely, and they went on to college. It was a very nice place to live. And Williamsport was also a nice place to grow up in, but it certainly was not too nice to stay there after you were grown. It was very limiting. After I graduated high school, my father died when I was 16 years old, and I was halfway through my junior year of high school, and I knew that nothing was going to keep us staying in Williamsport. I had a brother who was 12, and I 01:17:00just asked my mother [to] let me finish high school here because I knew we were not going to stay there. And she did. I went off to Penn State. When I was at Penn State, my mother and my brother moved back to New York. And then I met Irwin.

SCB: At Penn State?

ES: No, we both went to Penn State but did not meet there was no overlap.

IS: She graduated, no I graduated in June of '53, she started in September of '53.

ES: We never were there at the same time.

IS: And when she started in '53, I was already going into the Army.

ES: We met on a blind date here in Allentown, actually.

GE: Who fixed you up?

IS: Irwin Greenberg.

ES: Irwin Greenberg. My Aunt lived across the street.

GE: With Sheftel, I think it was Salitsky [who] fixed them up.

ES: Right. Back in the day, a blind date was very nice. Try and get your kids to 01:18:00do it today, forget it.

SCB: No, they have the Internet.

ES: Absolutely. They are not interested in that. And that is where we met.

SCB: So can you talk a little bit about your family as much as you know about your family, work, education, where they came from?

ES: Alright. Both my mother and father were born in the United States. My grandparents came from Poland. And the area of Poland that they came from was in- had been Austria. And as I mentioned, we took a trip back to Poland. We took my mother for her 80th birthday. And we went to visit the small village where her parents came from which was outside of Krakow and then we went to the area which was outside of Warsaw where Irwin's father came from. And in the area 01:19:00where my grandparents came from we found evidence of our family being there. We went into the hall of records, and I had said to my mother, "What do you think you are going to find, my grandparents came out of there in 1899, what do you think you are going to find?", "Maybe I can find my parent's marriage certificate." So we went into the hall of records with the guide, and the women asked could we find a marriage certificate, and she said, "Yes," and my mother gave her a date, and she turned to the shelf behind her and pulled a raggedy old book and she was going through the pages, and she stopped, said something in Polish and it was translated to there was had been a fire there in 1910 and everything burned down. My mother said she remembered that her mother, my 01:20:00grandmother, went back there to see her mother who never left the village. And she went in 1926, and they got word a few months later that she died. She said, "Could you find a death certificate?" She said, "Yes," and she said to start looking in May of 1926. And she pulled another dusty book out, and she is going like this, and she stopped. My mother had given her a name, and she said Eva Goldblatt, and my mother said, "Yes" that is her name. She said here it is. She lived to be 89 years old, and there was an address, and she died of natural causes in her own home. She died on October something or other, and was buried November 1st. And we figured she must have died on a Friday and was buried on Sunday. Now we had a name and an address. And we asked, "Is there a Jewish 01:21:00cemetery?" First of all, we asked, "Are there any Jewish people still left?" And she said there was one, and he had a shoe store around the corner. She gave us an address, and we went around the corner with the guide, spoke to the young man who owned the shoe store, and we asked if we could go to the cemetery. He said, give me a half an hour. I will get somebody to stay in my store, and I will take you to the cemetery. Well, we went back, and sure enough he took us to the cemetery, and it was a small town, so it was a small cemetery, but it had a neatly painted gate with a Jewish star on it, and he opened it up. Now we had someone we were going to see there, and the stones had all been smashed by the Nazis. You couldn't tell one grave from the other. So you know we knew that 01:22:00would be something we would suspect. Then I said we went to the area where Irwin's family was.

IS: Tell why the fellow was still there.

ES: Oh, yes.

SCB: Oh yea, absolutely. For the future. Why was there one Jewish man still there?

IS: Why was there one Jew, listen to this story.

ES: He said, do we know a place called Brooklyn? My mother said, "Oh yes we know that place." And he gave us a name and address, and he said would you please call. My mother and my sister live in Brooklyn, would you call them and tell them you met me and that I am okay. We said okay. We left, and then when we came home we did call, and we spoke to his sister, who spoke very good English. She said, "Did he give you a message for me?" We said, "No, he just said he is okay." Did you have a guide and a driver with you? I said, "Yes." That is why he 01:23:00could not give you a message. So she told us why he didn't leave, she said he could have come with us when we left Poland, but he had married a Polish woman, and she would not leave her family there. So he chose to stay.

IS: He is the only Jewish person there.

ES: Only one Jewish person. But that one Jewish person is maintaining this cemetery.

GE: Isn't that interesting.

IS: So he is maintaining the cemetery and painting the gate every year.

ES: He is mowing the grass. We went to the area where Irwin's family, where Irwin's father came from, which was a larger community. We knew the local mayor here, Joe Daddona. He gave us a key to the city and he gave us a proclamation with a blue ribbon and a gold seal, and he gave us Allentown All-American 01:24:00t-shirts to bring-

IS: To give to the mayor.

ES: And we had made arrangements to have a meeting with the mayor of that town. We had a private guide and he said what do you think you are going to find there. We said could you find my father-in-law's birth certificate and he gave us, we gave him a date, an approximate date and we got there, and this mayor had a reception for us with Pepsi Cola and pretzels. Irwin read him the proclamation, and it was translated. The man reached into his pocket and pulled out his proclamation.

IS: In Polish.

ES: In Polish and he is reading his proclamation, so after all those festivities were done, we asked, "Is there a cemetery here?" No, first we asked, "Are there any Jews still left in the town?" And he said, "Regretfully no." "Are there any 01:25:00cemeteries, is there a Jewish cemetery?" He said, "Yes there is," and he gave our guide directions to find it. So we went over there, and we found the cemetery.

IS: It was being used as a garbage dump.

ES: That is the difference between one Jew and none.

GE: My brother-in-law was just there now this past summer for the first time. We are Holocaust survivors, and so is my brother-in-law's family. It was very difficult. He went, actually it was interesting, because in that family, it was him and his sister, a cousin from Israel, a cousin from Sweden and a cousin from Paris. They all met, but they were able to find . . . and he said it was a little heartbreaking because of the conditions but they were able to find their grandfather's stone.

ES: They were able to find it?

GE: He said at least we were able to light a candle and say Kaddish [Jewish prayer recited for the dead].

ES: One of the things that we did, we took a little stone from the town where my grandparents came from and where his father came from, and when we came back here we went to the cemetery and put the stone there.

IS: Tell them the rest of your history. Ask her more questions.

SCB: Let me ask you one question, do you know if any extended family, is there any extended family left?

ES: In Poland?

SCB: Yes?

ES: If there are, we have no contact, we do not know. As I said my grandparents came here with-

SCB: Which is a long time ago.

ES: Yes, 1899. And my grandmother came here with four children, one of whom was 01:27:00an infant, and had four more children including my mother here. My father, his parents, were from Hungary. They met in the United States and married in the United States. So all of their children were born in the United States. If my father were alive today he would be a hundred and something years old, so they went back a very long time.

SCB: So you were going to say something more about the family, your history?

GE: I was just wondering in Williamsport, you said your father went there to start--.

ES: He went there to open up a business.

SCB: What kind of business?

ES: The kind you can't have anymore, a juvenile furniture and toy store. A retail store, the kind that Toys R Us put out of business. That is the history 01:28:00of retail.

GE: Right.

SCB: And until he passed away, he had that store?

ES: Yes, he had the store until he became ill. And then, you know, we left Williamsport.

GE: I assume you left because it was such a tiny Jewish community, and you wanted to go back to Brooklyn?

ES: Actually, my mother's whole family was in New York, and there was really nothing to keep her there anymore. I remember her coming up to Penn State one day which was really not far from Williamsport. She came up one day and she said, "Ellen, how would you feel about moving back to New York?" I said you know it really is not going to affect me as much, how about Arthur, who was my brother. And she said Arthur is willing to do it, and he was just going into high school, so it was a good time to make that break. So we did, and it turned 01:29:00out to be a very fine move because all of us went on to make a very nice life for ourselves, and my mother eventually met and married a lovely gentleman, she married again. So everybody you know there is a time to do some things and a time to move on, and that was the time to move on.

SCB: So can you talk a little bit about your college years and also after you met Irwin, how you came here?

ES: Well, actually my college years actually came in two parts. I had two years of college when I met Irwin and we're talking the '50s, and it was very common to leave school.

IS: And get married.

ES: And get married, it was called getting an MRS degree, which I got. After my children were grown, and they were in high school and had started college themselves, I went back to college here, and I went to Cedar Crest and finished, 01:30:00and I got a degree in social work, and I worked for the Jewish Community Center.

GE: Did you do that around the same time as Beverly Bloch?

ES: Yes, we were there just about I think I was there a few years before.

GE: It sounded like a similar story.

ES: I went there and Diane Silverman went there. We were all going there. They were running a program at the time where they were encouraging women who had dropped an education to go and pick up the threads of their interrupted education because, as I said, it was very, very common to stop school and get married.

SCB: Can you talk about your family, your children, and your life?

ES: You want me to talk about my grandchildren, you will have to put another one of those things in there. We have two children. Our daughter, Janet, our 01:31:00children both live in the New York area.

IS: Wonderful children, we raised them wonderfully, and they have great values.

ES: She is married to a very, very lovely man who is on television, he is a sports broadcaster, and you can see him here.

SCB: Is he Allentown?

ES: No, no, no, he is in New York.

SCB: He is on a New York station?

IS: Do you get Service Electric?

SCB: Yes.

GE: Yes.

ES: You can see him, Channel 7- Channel 17.

GE: What is his name?

ES: Bruce Beck.

GE: Bruce Beck, I'm going to try that.

ES: And he is with NBC in New York. And our son, who we said, "Don't come into our business, honey," he listened to mom and dad, and he is on Wall Street, he is a trader.

IS: He is the head trader, a securities business, and has done very, very well.

ES: Except this not such a wonderful day to be in the market.

IS: He is better off than being in the shmata [Yiddish for rags or garments] 01:32:00business, he listened to us.

ES: And we have four grandchildren. We have big grandchildren and little grandchildren.

GE: What was it like raising your children here in Allentown?

ES: It was a wonderful place to raise children, an excellent place. As I said, I grew up in Williamsport, but I always had family that lived here, and I used to come here as a teenager, and I would go down to the Center on 6th Street.

GE: So it was very familiar to you?

ES: Yes, very familiar to me, and I felt so jealous of these kids had a place to go, and they could socialize with other Jewish kids, and we had a handful of them in Williamsport.

GE: It was just enough to really be a community.

ES: Yes, absolutely, and that was it, there were about 50 Jewish families if there were that. Probably less now.

GE: In Williamsport.

IS: I am sure there are a lot less.

SCB: Did your children go through the Allentown School District?

ES: Yes, they both did. They graduated from Allen High School and they both went to the same college, they went to Ithaca College. They each came out with business degrees.

SCB: What Elementary School and Middle or Junior High School did they go to?

ES: They went to Muhlenberg Elementary and Trexler Junior High School, which was the popular one at the time.

GE: And this is the '70s I am assuming?

ES: Yes, one graduated High School in '75 and the other '78, so it was the '70s. It was a different time.

SCB: And where did you live during those times? And you talked about more than one building, where were the buildings? Just to place you in Allentown spatially both in business and personal.

ES: We lived on 24th Street, and we built that house primarily because of its 01:34:00school district that it was in but also because of its proximity to the Jewish Community Center.

GE: And when did the Jewish Community Center open, about?

ES: That building?

GE: Yes.

ES: That building opened I would say in '57, '56 or '57.

GE: And who were the major contributors, was it really the generation before you, like your father's generation?

IS: Yes.

ES: Yes, they were the builders.

IS: It was a joint effort.

Interview with Ellen Schneider

SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER: This is tape four, interview with Irwin and Ellen Schneider, and Gail Eisenberg and Susan Clemens-Bruder interviewing and attending. So you were talking about that your father-in-law was just 11 years out of Poland when he came here.

ELLEN SCHNEIDER: 1931-1932, he was 11 years out of Poland, and he had ambition, he did not have an education, he could not read and write English, but his job was as a foreman, and it was a good job. Thirty-five dollars a week in 1931 at the depths of the depression was a good job. He had a wife and a very young child, and he had the courage to leave the familiar, which was his whole family, whatever family he had, which came out of Poland, were all living in the same area of Brooklyn. And against his parent's wishes. "Please, Sam, don't go, don't go." You know they were shtetl [small Eastern European villages where Jews lived] people.

IRWIN SCHNEIDER: They begged him to stay in Brooklyn.

ES: To go out into the wide world, it took courage.

IS: "Sam, you're going to get lost in Allentown, don't go, don't go."

ES: Right, but he had the courage, he had the ambition. And thank God he did because all of us have had a wonderful life from the beginnings that he gave us. And we are very grateful to him. He was a wonderful man. I loved him, I did.

SCB: Can you talk about your role in the Synagogue and the community, the wider Allentown community and the Jewish community.

ES: My role was not much in the synagogue, that was Irwin's area. I devoted my energies to the Jewish Community Center. I devoted a lot of time and a lot of effort and I served in many capacities.

SCB: Can you talk about that?

ES: Yes, I was President of the Women's Auxiliary of the Jewish Community Center, which in the days that I was there had a membership of 600 and it had a 01:37:00Board of 60 ladies. And after I got finished with that, after having been President of--

GAIL EISENBERG: And you were President, this is about what decade?

ES: Late '60s, early '70s. And I served on the Board of the Jewish Community Center for 15 years. And after I had finished my interrupted education and got a degree in social work. Actually I was placed with Jewish Family Services as part of some of my course work. And an opening came up, they said to me go down to the Friendship Circle and interact. I did not know what that was, but I figured I'll figure it out. And I went down there and interacted. And after a few months an opening occurred, and the director of the center came to me and said, "Would 01:38:00you like to come and work here?" I said "Lenny, I haven't finished my course yet." He said, "Take some extra courses finishing up and start work here." I actually started the job while I was still finishing up my coursework.

GE: And the Friendship Circle is?

ES: The senior adult group. Yes, and I ran that. And the days that I was running that program that was the only organized activity for the Jewish elderly in Allentown.

GE: Are there no . . .?

ES: I think it has been fragmented. I think there are several other groups, I think some of them are self-run.

GE: I see.

SCB: And can you talk a little bit about how you think that the community has changed, and the Jewish community has changed? You talked some about that, but is there more?

ES: The community of Allentown, the wider community, has changed vastly as I 01:39:00think all of us realize. The ethnicity has changed completely. We were just driving through the old neighborhoods a week or two ago, and we were saying that this Allentown traditionally had been pretty much a blue-collar community.

IS: All white.

ES: White and the factory owners who employed the blue-collar people. That has changed a great deal. It was a lot of Pennsylvania Dutch. I do not think there are even too many Pennsylvania Dutch even around anymore. Very, very mixed ethnicities here, for the good, for the bad, I don't really know, but it has changed. The Jewish community, as I mentioned before, I think one of the biggest changes has been the death of the family-run businesses. Whether they were 01:40:00retail businesses or garment businesses or other businesses they are not passed down father to son as they had been. Children are being educated, girls too, are being educated in areas that are really pretty foreign to us. And they are seeking their fortunes outside the area. So how that, what that portends for the Jewish community I don't know, but it's changed.

SCB: Did you, in your married life, shop in Allentown? Did you actually patronize Allentown in sort of an encapsulated way?

ES: Absolutely. Absolutely. Hess's department store was a legend in its time. You could find the finest things there. Up and down Hamilton Street had beautiful ladies' clothing stores. I shopped a lot there. Those days are over and regretfully so. And I do my shopping out of town and I would, very much, if this ever gets shown to people who are in retailing, think about your customer who is still here and would like to shop, and there is not a lot around.

SCB: Any specific stores that you remembered where you shopped for clothing?

ES: Hess's, mostly Hess's absolutely.

SCB: Mostly Hess's, anything smaller?

ES: Yes, there were some individually run very nice ladies shops. I cannot even remember the names of them anymore.

SCB: Marilyn's, maybe.

ES: That store was out of Reading.

SCB: Oh okay. And then came here.

ES: Yes, and then came here.

SCB: Emil Otto?

ES: Yes, that had a nice clientele. There was a shop on 8th and Hamilton, I cannot remember the name, but that was gone a long time ago. But it was going downtown when I first came to town, I mean, you got dressed up to go downtown. And going to Hess's was an event. And having dinner--

IS: Back in the late '40s, we used to go downtown, people would wear a sports jacket and a tie on a Thursday night to go shopping.

ES: I got dressed up to go shopping.

IS: On a Thursday night in the 1940s.

ES: Those days are gone.

GE: Times have changed.

ES: Oh, have they changed.

GE: You mentioned with the JCC that Irwin was more involved with Beth El, what do you think attracted you? In other words, what from the JCC or about the JCC?

ES: What attracted me to the JCC was growing up without a JCC and realizing what this did for my peers who are still here and they grew up in Allentown, they went to the JCC. That is why I gave my time and talents to that organization. Irwin grew up at Temple Beth El, he has never belonged to another synagogue in his life. Never. People have asked, "Are you going to go to children's for the holidays?" And I say, "No we go to the Temple Beth El." I think even when you were in college, I think you used to come home to go to Temple Beth El for the holidays. No, that is what we do.

GE: You said that it was certainly important, valuable in his growing up with the JCC and his peers, you didn't have that. Do you feel your children did?

ES: Yes, absolutely, that was why we built that house that we did on North 24th Street, which was within two blocks of the Jewish Community Center. That is how much I felt about the Jewish Community Center because I grew up without it.

SCB: So you could walk there?

ES: Yes, absolutely.

SCB: What do you value in life?

ES: I value my family, whom I love. I value good health. I value my husband.

GE: What has made you feel creative?

ES: What has made me feel creative? My goodness. I would have to say that the years I spent working with the elderly. I discovered I had a rapport with the elderly that I never knew that I had. When I started taking social work and intended to work in the field, I thought I would work with children. And just happenstance got me working with the elderly and discovered that I liked them. Now I am one of them.

SCB: Thank you so much.

ES: Oh, you are welcome. I would love to see what this turns out to be.