Shirley Berman, June 24, 2013

An Interview with Shirley Berman, June 24, 2013

SUSAN CLEMENS-BRUDER: Shirley, may I ask what your full name is including your maiden name and when you were born.

SHIRLEY BERMAN: Shirley Isabelle Malenovsky Berman, and I was born August 14, 1922 and I would like to say welcome to you two lovely ladies.

SC: Well thank you.

SB: It's nice to have you here in my home.

SC: And a beautiful home, absolutely beautiful and beautiful tea that we just had. Where were you born?

SB: I was born in the Sacred Heart Hospital in Allentown many, many years ago. I'm not going to tell you -- you can figure it out yourself.

SC: Where did you live as a small child?

SB: As a child, we lived on North 5th St. until we moved up to -- we went West. 00:01:00You know what they say, "go west young man" - well the young lady went West to 16th Street.

GAIL EISENBERG: What year was that? Or how old were you?

SB: I was about 12 or 13 so that would have been in '35-'34 in that area.

SC: So when you were living on 5th Street in South Allentown, was there a Synagogue there?

SB: Yes, there was the Congregation Sons of Israel at that time on North 6th Street, a couple of blocks from where we lived -- we lived on North 5th Street.

SC: Is that building still there?

SB: Yes it is, I think it became a Greek church at one time, I don't know if it still is, but possibly. It was a lovely building -- stone building.

GE: And that building was at 6th and what?

SB: 6th and Tilghman.

SC: My husband and I drove to -- actually to one of our friend's fathers who passed away, and we drove in that area and he was trying to tell me what he remembered because he was born in Allentown--so we'll go back again and look for it.

SB: We used to walk to the Temple from where we lived - it was just a couple of blocks.

SC: When you moved to 16th Street, did the Synagogue relocate at that time?

SB: No, the Synagogue at that time was a small, little building at about 12th or 13th -- I think it was Thirteenth & Walnut Street. As a matter of fact, my brother's bar mitzvah was the last bar mitzvah in that little synagogue. Then we moved up here to 17th and Hamilton Street, where they built Temple Beth El.

SC: How about your parents, can you tell me as much as you can about them -- where they were born, where their families were from and where they lived.

SB: My mother was from Burlington, Vermont. My father lived in Allentown and through a cousin of my father's, I believe it was -- in upstate New York State -- they met. That cousin arranged for my mother to come visit her so she could meet my father. Then through correspondence and telephone for a while, they corresponded and spoke to each other and eventually they got together and got 00:04:00married. My mother moved to Allentown and lived for a while until they established themselves and bought a home on North Fifth Street. They lived with my grandparents -- my father's parents, who were from Russia. They were a dear couple, very sweet. My grandfather, as a matter of fact, Elias Malenovsky, was one of the first Jewish settlers in Allentown. He established a little synagogue down on 2nd Street - he and a man by the name of Mr. Senderowitz -- the two first Jewish settlers in Allentown.

SC: So that's the Malenovsky family that is also related to Sheftel?

SB: Sheftel was my aunt, who was my father's sister's husband. Eventually my 00:05:00father and Mr. Sheftel went into business together. Sheftel, I understand, had a truck.

SC: We have a picture of it.

GE: That was their first truck.

SB: That was an inducement for my father to start a business along those lines. What happened was, with the business, was that my grandfather was known as a peddler. He had a horse and a wagon. In those days there were lots of peddlers going around the neighborhoods. He traveled from Allentown all the way up to Slatington picking up whatever he could buy at the time, whether it was clothes, fruit, watermelons, or junk or odds-n-ends, whatever he could put his hands on 00:06:00and then he would sell it for a couple more cents, in those days -- no big deal -- there was no General Motors at the time. Anyhow, my father went to school until he was in the 8th grade and then he went out peddling with his father. One day my grandmother (my father's mother) said to him, I just found this out, as a matter of fact, today, my brother was over here and gave me this information -- she said to him, "Why don't you go to factories and pick up the little scraps that they get rid of and you can sell it to other places -- like paper mills." There were a lot of places - I've written down here -- where they sold it to. 00:07:00They sold it to paper mills, to roofing companies (they used in the shingles), the paper companies used in the paper, the government used it in money -- my brother gave me this information to me today--I can't read my own writing--stationery companies and I have to get my glasses, can you read that at the bottom?

SC: Wiping rags?

SB: Oh yes, wiping rags -- that's how he started his business and it got to be a rather large business. When my father passed away, then Sheftel passed away -- 00:08:00within six weeks of each other. Sheftel's children took it over and now I think it's in the hands of the grandchildren. Right?

GE: I think so.

SC: Do you know any of the other names in your family -- your mother's family or your father's mother's family? Any of the other surnames?

GE: In other words, we already know about Malenovsky--

SB: You mean like my father had a brother?

SC: Your mother's mother's name?

SB: My mother's name was Flax. That grandfather of mine was a Reverend. He was a 00:09:00mohel and he wrote and he was also a shochet.

GE: Oh, he did with the slaughtering.

SB: He did different things for the Temple. For example, for the graves at the cemeteries you had to take out certain papers and printing and everything - like for the -- oh what's it called?

SC: Engraving? Or the stone work to put the names on.

SB: Yes, he did that. Also on my father's side, my grandfather -- that other grandfather and my uncle, who was my father's brother, did that for the cemeteries and for the people who made the monuments. They wrote for the two families.

GE: So the Flax family -- they were in Vermont. Do you know where they were prior to Vermont?

SB: No, I don't know.

GE: Around, let's say for instance, your grandparents lived in Vermont, how about their parents? Do you know if their parents did?

SB: I never knew their parents and their parents weren't in Vermont. Their parents were from Russia.

GE: Do you know if the family came from Russia? Poland?

SB: I don't know exactly. I should have asked my brother. My brother could probably give you that information -- I'll give you his name and telephone number.

GE: That would be good.

SC: We could fill in then.

GE: How about your father's family, let's say for instance the Malenovskys?

SB: They also came from Russia. I think-- I'm almost certain--.

GE: Both of them sound like they came fairly early -- more like the 1870's -- not 1900 or even earlier.

SB: It might be a little early possibly.

SC: Do you know where in Vermont they lived?

SB: In Burlington.

SC: They went right to Burlington?

SB: No, I just thought of the place my cousin was -- that introduced my parents -- Glenn Falls, New York. They lived there for a while -- the Flax family.

SC: Burlington is also an interesting city for people to go to.

SB: The University of Vermont is there -- it's a good medical school, a fine medical school.

SC: And, there was industry there, I believe, earlier.

SB: Industry? I don't know--.maple syrup?!?

GE: They started out at Glenn Falls, do you know why they went to Burlington?

SB: Maybe he was offered a job there -- in the Shul.

SC: Right, because he was a mohel?

SB: He started the one shul there, too.

GE: And how about the Malenovsky family -- where your grandfather was a peddler, do you know what brought them to Allentown?

SB: I don't really know -- sorry I can't help you out there. My grandmother had a sister living here -- that motivated her -- by the name of Becker -- the Becker family -- that could have been art of it -- I don't know. They were in 00:13:00the meat business, the Becker boys.

GE: Were they butchers or meat processors?

SB: I don't know. My brother could help you more with that information.

SC: And, also I could look some of this up on Ancestry.com -- you can look up names.

SB: If you ask my brother, he could help you out with some of it.

SC: So the Becker brothers would be at the turn of the century?

SB: Probably.

SC: We have to say what century, anymore!

GE: Of the early 20th century. It sounds like the family was in Allentown by 1870's and so if that brought them there--.

SC: Can we talk a little bit about your husband's family?

SB: Sure, My husband was in the army and when he got out of the army, he had 00:14:00worked before for a company in New Jersey somewhere. He and his brother worked for a company.

GE: What was his brother's name?

SB: Rubin.

GE: So it's Harry and Rubin.

SB: I'll tell you, Harry was the whole business, Rubin liked to think he was, but don't put that down!

SC: That's fine.

GE: And I assume when you said they were in the army, it was that during WWII.

SB: Right, we're not that old!

GE: Just double checking! You're the same age as my parents. And, they grew up in New Jersey?

SB: No, they grew up in New York.

GE: New York City?

SB: They were in New York City for a while. I don't know if they were in Brooklyn so put down New York City.

GE: And then they moved to New Jersey?

SB: Well, no he used to go by ferry to New Jersey.

GE: Okay, he just worked in New Jersey. The two brothers together worked in New Jersey.

SC: And they were Rubin and Harry Berman -- so we could look that up, too.

SB: In between he went into the army for four years. They worked together for a while for a company in New Jersey. Then when he got out of the army, he moved to Catasauqua. He had a dying -- a knitting and dying - small place in Catasauqua.

GE: Was that a place that he owned, was that a place that he worked at?

SB: I don't know if he owned it. I don't know, I can't tell you that.

SC: Again, we could look that up.

SB: He probably owned it. Anyhow, after that, he was there for a couple years, he built this very large factory on 309 near Emmaus, outside of Emmaus - A knitting and dyeing factory -- both -- everything under one roof.

SC: Do you know the address of that -- the factory -- what street it was on.

SB: I don't know the name of it -- Emaus Avenue.

GE: And the name is Fair-Tex?

SB: The name was Fair-Tex Mills. Then they went on the stock exchange after a few years. What else do you want to know?

SC: Do you know anything about Harry's family? Where they came from? What they did?

SB: They came from Russia, too.

GE: Were their parents from Russia?

SB: Yes.

GE: So they were first generation, Harry & Rubin - their parents were from Russia.

SC: Do you know anything about the education of any of the people we talked about?

SB: My mother was a teacher. She taught in a school where they taught first to 00:18:00sixth grade. She used to come by horse and buggy, then she took a trolley -- she went about ten different ways to get to school.

SC: Do you know where the school was?

SB: Outside of Burlington somewhere.

SC: So before she was married she taught.

GE: I don't have your parent's names.

SB: My mother's name?

GE: Yes.

SB: Lillian Rachel Flax Malenovsky.

GE: So she went to college?

SB: She didn't go to college. In those days she didn't go to college.

GE: But she graduated high school?

SB: Yes and got her teaching - whatever it was.

GE: Certificate probably.

SC: For normal school perhaps.

GE: And what was your father's name?

SB: Jacob Harry Malenovsky. He went to eighth grade, period.

SC: So many people did.

SB: But he was very bright.

GE: Absolutely!

SC: So after you and Harry were married, did you become involved in the business 00:20:00at all?

SB: I was involved in the sense that we socialized with his customers and a lot of them didn't want Harry to come without me. We always traveled together, we went to Europe -- all over together. We went to Europe a couple of times a year. A lot of his business was in Europe.

GE: When you say his business was in Europe do you mean customers?

SB: No, he bought machines over there, equipment, and we became close friends with the people we did business with. As a matter of fact, we were the only customers who were invited to their homes. We had wonderful times with these people. Unfortunately all of them are dead now -- every one of them, but they 00:21:00were wonderful people.

SC: Did you entertain them also?

SB: Yes, I did. Some of them came here to my house and they liked it. I had a lovely house.

SC: 3363 Trexler Boulevard -- at the corner of 34th and Trexler. A beautiful house at one time. As a matter of fact, it was on television.

GE: When did you and Harry marry?

SB: 1962.

GE: And he passed away--..

SB: We were married for 45 years.

SC: Is that a wedding picture in the cabinet?

SB: No, that's my son.

SC: Oh, that's your son -- oh that's how young you look!

SB: I have pictures of us, but not wedding pictures -- I will show you sometime.

SC: Can you explain what you know of the business process?

SB: He had the first computerized textile machine in the country. The machines were computerized and he could design on the machine itself. He had one of the largest textile businesses in the country, until knitting started to decline. 00:23:00Then fortunately he got out in time and we enjoyed the rest of our lives together as much as we could.

SC: What year did he get out of it?

SB: He was probably close to 65. He was born in 1918.

GE: So that would be early '82-'83.

SC: So he was in a good, long time.

SB: Yes, most of his life.

SC: As far as the business, when you said he had the first computerized designing, was he designing clothing at that time?

SB: He had women that designed for him -- designers.

SC: So he wasn't a contractor necessarily in the end to New York manufacturers, he was a producer, he was a manufacturer.

SB: Of fabric - basically. And he had other factories where he manufactured garments. He bought a place in western Pennsylvania near Pittsburgh where they made ladies shirts. He bought his friend's factory -- it used to be Mort Levy's factory -- called Strong Wear Pants -- in Easton.

GE: Was the fabrics the large part of the business?

SB: Yes. That was the business!

GE: So the main thing was the fabrics--..

SB: Manufacturing knitted goods which he made for swimming suit factories, 00:25:00ladies and men's underwear factories, clothing factories -- where they used knit goods, not woven.

GE: Tell me the difference?

SB: See, this is a knit -- that's woven

SC: And this is cotton knit.

SB: That's a different kind of knit than he made, I forgot what you call it.

SC: Double knit?

SB: No double knits, he had double knits. There is a name for it -- it's not like this kind of knit.

GE: His customers -- were often the local factories in town - who were making the clothes.

SB: Not necessarily.

GE: His customers were all over the world. He was one of the large knit fabric producers.

SB: Exactly, he had factories all over.

SC: But he did own factories that produced finished goods.

SB: He had a couple smaller factories that produced. But that wasn't his main business - It was knitting and dying. He knitted the fabric and then dyed it to the color that he wanted. He had his own dying right there.

SC: And did his designers then design fabric that had different patterns to it?

SB: Right.

SC: He was an entrepreneur.

SB: Yes he was. There were things used for bathing suits that would have been different from underwear or dresses or for children's things.

SC: Do you have any stories about the people you met all over the world who were his customers?

SB: From whom he bought his machines -- and customers. We used to go out to California a couple times a year and meet with his people out there -- he had people out there -- he had salesmen out there, and also customers out there. We had good times.

SC: Does anything stand out in your mind--any experience that you had when you were traveling?

SB: We had wonderful conventions out in California, in Germany, in Italy -- machine shows -- in England. All over -- yes, these things all stand out -- we 00:28:00had wonderful times out there with the people from whom we bought the machines and with people who became our friends -- very close friends.

GE: How about Harry's education?

SB: He graduated from high school and then he went two years to night school -- night college.

GE: Was that after the war on the G.I. Bill or was that before the war?

SB: Well, he graduated high school before the war.

GE: Right, but how about college?

SB: It could have been after. He went to a school for design -- I forget what you call it.

GE: Like -- I know in Philadelphia -- there is the Philadelphia College of Textiles and Science.

SC: What was your husband's business philosophy? Did he have certain ideas that 00:29:00he talked about?

SB: He was fair, very honest in his business.

GE: When you say he was fair and honest, are you saying with his suppliers, customers, employees?

SB: With everyone. One time he made a deal with someone -- I don't know what 00:30:00happened, but it would have meant that if he went through with it, he would have lost a lot of money. And he did -- because he gave his word. I can't give you the exact details about the deal, but he did go ahead and made good on what he said. He was very honest and fair with business.

SC: Did you have any conversations about his business?

SB: No, I didn't, I didn't mix into his business very much. I was there when he needed me, and I was helpful. We had some transactions in Paris, and my husband didn't speak French. I took French in school, and we weren't allowed to speak English. That was years ago when I was in college. I hadn't spoken French in years and years, but it came back to me little by little when we went to France. 00:31:00I did help him as much as I could along those lines because he didn't know a word of French. And it did work out fine, we did culminate the deal and that was it.

GE: I don't think we had a chance to talk much about your experience growing up in Allentown. Tell us a little bit about you and your family - when you were a young girl, what the Jewish community was like, what the larger Allentown community was like.

SB: Well, I'll tell you, I had a very good childhood. I had two wonderful parents. I had two wonderful sisters and an adorable brother. I had a very nice life as a child. In those days you didn't have to be afraid to go out at night.

GE: Excuse me, you were the oldest?

SB: I'm the oldest. And, it was a nice life, you didn't have to be afraid. It 00:32:00was a clean life. We always had a good time. As children, my parents would take us every summer to Burlington. We rented a cottage on Lake Champlain. My mother's family was there, so we had great times. Her family would always come to be with us at the bay, which is right outside of Burlington, Malletts Bay, right on the lake.

GE: How long did you stay there? Was it for a week, a month?

SB: No, that was for the summer. My father would take us up. In those days going to Burlington was like going to Europe today. It took us two to three days to get there. We'd stay in those little cabins -- he would take us and come back six weeks later and then another trip to take us home. So we had a wonderful 00:33:00time, it was right on the lake. We made friends. There were a lot of Canadian people coming down from Montreal. We made lots of friends and had a very wonderful childhood.

SC: Can you spell the town that you stayed at outside of Burlington?

SB: Malletts Bay

SC: Can you spell that?

SB: M-A-L-L-E-T-T-S B-A-Y.

GE: No, I didn't spell that right.

SB: It was about from here to New York to go to Montreal. So we'd go up there during the summer and spend a day in Montreal, usually, and took little trips 00:34:00around Burlington. We had fun, we had lots of fun.

GE: And your father's business managed to stay okay during the Depression?

SB: They managed -- they managed to be fine -- they wound up good. We never realized how good they were -- we were never told as children their situation. We were just happy for them. I had good parents. It wasn't like today, we didn't have the problems that we have today -- none of the problems with any of our children. It was a good life, a simple life, my parents never spoiled us, and I never realized the position they were in until after my father passed away. We enjoyed what we had. My father was in contact with all of the factories. As 00:35:00children, he'd bring us shoes, he'd bring us different things from different factories. It was a big deal. We'd get new shoes for Passover, new shoes for Rosh Hashanah and new shoes for other times, and we were thrilled. When I gave up my shoes, they looked new because we had an appreciation in those days. Today the children have everything and don't appreciate anything. To this day, I have lots of shoes -- maybe three hundred pairs. My husband used to call me an elf! But, every pair of shoes is like the day I got them almost, except the heels 00:36:00from driving. It was a different way of life, it really was.

SC: When you were a child did you play mostly with kids in the neighborhood, or did you have more connections to the Jewish community?

SB: I used to walk, when we lived on 5th Street - I used to go to Hebrew School. I used to walk myself coming home at night -- I don't know if you know Allentown -- from Fifth Street, the north end -- we lived below Washington on Fifth. I walked from there all the way to Sixth and Chew -- this would be where the Jewish Community Center was -- myself to go to Hebrew School at night. In the winter, it was dark -- I never had any qualms about walking. Sometimes, my mother, if she could, would meet me partway. If she couldn't, sometimes my Hebrew teacher, I can't remember her name, a lovely lady, she'd walk me partway. 00:37:00Anyway, I never gave it a thought -- who'd walk today? What little child would walk today?

GE: I don't know if they can't or if we don't let them. But, whatever it is.

SB: It's not safe.

GE: You're absolutely right. You mentioned that your family at that time belonged to Sons of Israel and then when you moved you belonged to Temple Beth El. Why did you change?

SB: I guess for convenience.

GE: That's what I was wondering. And at that time tell me a little bit about the Jewish community -- the size of the community, the cohesiveness -- what it was like, where did everyone live? When you were a young girl, were there a lot of Jewish families?

SB: Yes, there were.

GE: And then when you moved to 16th Street?

SB: I'll tell you, when we moved up to Beth El, we went to that little Temple on Walnut Street. Remember I told you.

GE: Right, yes.

SB: And of course there weren't that many people. And the whole Temple was, I don't think it was bigger than this room here. That was as a Temple really, so if all the people came, maybe they filled it. But that wasn't that many people. Then of course as we kept going to Beth El on 17th and Hamilton, it kept growing and growing. And that's why we thought- my nephew is the one by the way- is the one who was instrumental in building the new Temple. Beautiful isn't it?

GE: Yes, yes.

SB: Have you been in it?

SC: I've seen pictures and we've been by it.

SB: But you weren't in it?

SC: No, I wasn't in it.

GE: I'll take you over to see it.

SB: You have to go over.

SC: Yes, yes.

SB: So, then it grew of course.

GE: Right.

SB: And we did, we went to Temple. In the beginning when we were younger of course we went with my parents. And then, of course I've been going all my life to Beth El. I stayed with Beth El. And now I don't go that much. I've lost some enthusiasm to go, but I go for the holidays, you know.

GE: Right.

SB: And I'll always go, I went to Temple. And we went to the Center as young people, I went more when the Jewish Community Center was on 6th and Chew. I went there more. I was younger then, and I was more active in different things. But I'm not that active in the center, I'm a life member of the Temple of Hadassah 00:40:00of Beth El. But now I don't go that much.

SC: Was the building of Beth El at 6th and Chew, that isn't where Union Baptist Church is now?

SB: Union Baptist Church?

SC: Yeah, it would be the Community Center if you are standing at 6th and Chew at the Community Center.

SB: 6th and Chew? Are you talking about the old Community Center? You mean the Church across the street?

SC: Yeah.

SB: Yeah it was there.

SC: That was it.

SB: Yeah it was there.

GE: No, that was the old Center? In other words, the JCC is not the same building. It was already there.

SC: Oh that church, that was already there.

SB: Yeah I think so, I don't know.

SC: We keep trying to figure out where the synagogue was at 6th and Chew.

SB: Oh no the synagogue wasn't.

SC: Just the JCC was there.

SB: Yeah.

SC: Oh.

SB: The synagogue was at 6th and Tilghman.

SC: Tilghman, okay.

SB: Down, going north.

SC: Okay, yes, going north.

SB: Quite a few blocks.

SC: Oh okay.

SB: Yeah.

GE: I'll drive down with you. I'm curious myself.

SC: Yeah we have to figure that out.

GE: Because when I came to town already it was at 17th and Hamilton and the JCC was at 22nd and Tilghman.

SB: Right. Now they are trying to sell the Jewish Community Center.

SC: Again, yeah.

SB: That's a shame, I'm sad to see that go.

SC: Yeah.

SB: What's going to be there? Do you know?

GE: Well if they are able to sell it, the idea is that they are going to move further west.

SB: They are going to move, really?

GE: Yeah, because it's already a 60 year old building so you know it really starts showing its age.

SB: Yeah. The thing is they always do everything, when they are doing the Temple or they are doing something else. And people don't have the money for everything. You know what I mean?

GE: Right, right.

SB: It's not good timing.

GE: Right. Tell us about your education. Where did you go to school?

SC: That's what I was going to ask.

SB: My education- first I went to the school at 5th and Washington St.. It was called Garfield. At that time they told me I had the highest IQ of anyone in the school they had had.

GE: Wow.

SB: So that was nice to hear as a youngster. Then we moved, and I went up to Raub Jr. High School. And then from there I went to Allentown High School.

GE: And I'm assuming you were, were you a very good student?

SB: National Honor, yeah.

SC: Right.

SB: From there I went to Cedar Crest College on a full scholarship, and I was given something that nobody ever heard of. I was given unlimited cuts. So every 00:43:00Monday I wasn't in school. I was engaged at the time, so after I don't know how long, they took it away from me. I left school, listen to this, in my senior year, to go with my husband at the time. He was going overseas so I went to work in Maryland at the- whats the name of the place-

GE: But you went overseas?

SB: No, I didn't go overseas. I went with him first to the improving ground. And I worked as a secretary to a colonel there. I left school in my senior year. I left college, Dean's honor list, and National Honor. I had one semester to 00:44:00finish. I broke my parents' heart, I realized, but I wanted to badly be with my husband. And I never went back to school, because first of all, when I could have after that, I became pregnant with children and this and that. Three children. And when I could have, they had discontinued my course, for one thing. And, already I didn't have the patience really. You lose it, you get out of the swing of it and it's difficult to get back.

GE: Sure. What were you studying?

SB: I majored in psychology. I wanted to be a doctor, actually. And I also took a business course. And then after my husband was overseas for four years, I was 00:45:00secretary to a colonel here at - what's the name of the place- Consolidated Vultee, where they made the airplanes.

SC: Ah, yes.

SB: I was secretary to a colonel, I was secretary to a group called Baker, Gindler, and Hagzeh-- three consultants.

GE: Is this now back in Allentown?

SB: Yes, Baker, Gindler, and Hagzeh, until they wanted to date me, and I was already engaged and married. I left them. Then I was secretary at the Bethlehem Jewish Community Center in charge of the office. And then at that time, I think my husband came home.

SC: So can you talk a little bit about, were you involved in the community, the larger community, or the Jewish community?

SB: I was active, yes I was active as a young woman, I was active in Hadassah. I 00:46:00was on the board. I was active at Temple Beth El. I was the secretary for a number of years. Well, I wasn't active at the- I was a life member at the Jewish Community Center. But I wasn't active per se. And I was active with my own things, you know, my own friends and family.

SC: Right, you own life. How about Harry? Was he very active in either these organizations or professional organizations?

SB: Yes, he was.

GE: What was he involved in?

SB: He was part of the Jewish Federation, he was part of the different organizations- I can't think of a name.

GE: Like Rotary or any of those?

SB: No, I don't think Rotary.

GE: Like the Chamber of Commerce?

SB: Yes, the Chamber of Commerce. I don't know, I'm trying to think of what else he was active in.

SC: Was he active in politics? Any of the political elements of the Lehigh Valley?

SB: No, not politics.

GE: How about the association? Any kind of association, like fabric. You know, a manufacturers association?

SB: Yeah, I think he was, but I couldn't tell you the names of organizations. That I can't.

GE: Okay. And also it sounds like you had a very nice -

SB: Social life. We had a very nice social life.

GE: Yes.

SB: That we did, with friends and family.

GE: Right, right.

SC: So do you have any other questions?

GE: You know what, I'm just looking. Um, anything, any good memories that you 00:48:00have about his employees, at all? Any of the employees, local employees? First of all, how many? Do you know what was the size, how many workers there were?

SB: He had a big factory. See this is why I said, I didn't think I could give you too much information.

GE: That's okay.

SB: No, let me think. I would safely say that between the three different businesses that he owned, I would say that he hired maybe a couple thousand.

SC: Wow, that's big.

SB: Yeah, maybe more, but I don't want to say more.

GE: Now when you say the three businesses, it's the fabric-

SB: Yeah and then the two other factories.

GE: And then the two factories.

SB: Yeah so safely I would say maybe a couple thousand.

GE: That's big.

SC: So how has Allentown changed in your life and since the end of manufacturing, do you think?

SB: It's a big change in my life. Well, you mean the end of his business when he got out of business?

SC: Well, in your whole life, let's start with that. How has Allentown changed since you were young?

SB: How about what?

SC: Allentown has changed since you were young.

SB: Oh yes, of course. There's so much more going on in Allentown now. So much more building. So many more businesses and organizations and growth in the city of Allentown. Even in the population, people have come here from New Jersey and New York. They come here to live, because it's better living for them. They come from New York and New Jersey, there is great growth here in Allentown.

SC: Is it a different climate than when you were a child?

SB: Yes it is. It's a different climate like it is all over the world, unfortunately. And, more things happening here that shouldn't be happening, but, there is good growth and there is also evil growth, which is throughout the world now unfortunately. How about a piece of chocolate, in between?

SC: *laughs*

GE: *laughs*

SC: And how about with the needle trades and textiles leaving Allentown, going down south first, and then going overseas? Do you think that has had an effect on people?

SB: Definitely, yeah, sure, a lot of people lost their jobs, or had to move out of town because of it. Or, in general their life changed, certainly.

SC: So I have two really sort of filmy questions, just feeling questions, first of all what do you value in life most?

SB: What do I what?

SC: Value in life most.

SB: I value my family. That's number one in my life. My friends, and I am blessed to have a wonderful family. Both my own personal family and my nieces, nephews, their families, and my own families, and also my wonderful friends, as well as terrific doctors who have kept me living, and to whom I really owe my life. And nurses, and I'm blessed to have them as my personal friends. I am.

GE: That's nice.

SC: And what have you- has made you feel the most creative?

SB: Pardon?

SC: The most creative in your life.

SB: The most creative in my life. Well, my children are creative, in their own way, each one. I appreciate that in them, in each one. My oldest is in a videotaping business.

*the electricity goes out*

SB: What's that?

GE: I don't- maybe is that camera still going?

SB: Huh?

GE: You know what, it's raining and it sounds like we're getting a little bit of a storm.

SB: That's probably what it is.

GE: Yeah.

SB: What was I saying?

GE/SC: Your children being creative.

SB: Yeah, my oldest son is in the videotaping, has a nice videotaping. He's been on the radio since he was ten years old. And he's followed through with a 00:53:00videotaping business.

GE: Right.

SB: He doesn't do it himself so much anymore, but he did.

GE: Right, what kind of videos does he-

SB: Well, for instance if you have a wedding, a bar mitzvah, a party, he'll do that.

GE: Right, okay yes, yes.

SC: So we could have had him here today doing the videotaping.

SB: Yes.

SC: He could have done the videotaping.

SB: And my second son is a um- no that word always escapes me- he's a-uh he advises.

GE: A consultant?

SB: Consultant.

GE: Right, okay.

SB: That word, I don't know why, I have a mental block. He's a consultant for medical companies, the government, the state, he does that. My youngest son works for a jet propulsion lab. They are the ones affiliated with setting up the rockets. And they are also affiliated with the University of- I think it is 00:54:00Southern California or California- and he is a lawyer. He is in their legal department.

GE: So wonderful.

SB: So they're each creative in their own way. My husband was very creative.

GE: Right. And in

SB: And-

GE: What ways have you been creative? What makes you feel most creative?

SB: What makes me creative? Having children-

*electricity goes out*

SB: Oh my gosh, look at that. Having children. Oh my gosh.

GE: So being a mom.

SC: Okay, it just went off for a second.

SB: And I like to write.

SC: Write?

SB: I do, I write. And uh,

GE: Tell us what kind of writing do you do?

SB: Well just, uh, personal.

GE: Like a journal?

SB: No.

GE: Or letters?

SB: Letters, and for occasions, and things like that.

GE: Oh, isn't that lovely.

SB: I just wrote a letter for Lisa.

GE: Oh.

SB: For her, you know she had a granddaughter.

GE: Oh.

SB: For the naming.

GE: Isn't that beautiful.

SB: Named after Perry, my sister.

GE: You know what, I did hear that, that her oldest son had that, is that correct?

SB: Yeah.

GE: Isn't that nice.

SB: Yeah they had a baby, but whatever.

SC: And I say creative, but in a sense, what has made you feel most satisfied in your life other than your children?

SB: Well, my marriage was good, up to a point. And, oh what can I tell you. I'm just satisfied with my life. I have a positive attitude and I'm just happy to be here. And I feel there's so much good you can get out of life if you look for it, even though there are adversities in everybody's life, for sure. And, I'm 00:56:00happy with what's going on. I have to overcome certain adversities, but I'm happy.

GE: Beautiful.

SC: Thank you so much.

SB: Thank you for being with me.