00:00:00MITCH HEMPHILL
LIZ BRADBURY: -- do -- great, and there we are. So, I have to start out by
saying this project, with this project, the Bradbury Sullivan LGBT Community
Center and the Trexler Library at Muhlenberg College will collaborate on 40
years of public health experiences in the Lehigh Valley LGBT community,
collecting and curating local LGBT health experiences from HIV/AIDS to COVID-19.
And so, I start out by saying, and this is all on and everything -- I'm supposed
to, let's see, I want to be sure I'm going to do the right thing here. Yes. So,
this is the first one I've done. So, that's why --
MITCH HEMPHILL: Oh, okay.
LB: (inaudible) [a little hesitating? ]. My name is Liz Bradbury and I'm here
with Mitch Hemphill to talk about his experiences in the Lehigh Valley LGBT
community -- oh, this is the wrong one.(laughs) No. During this -- oh, I see,
00:01:00the LGBT community, during this time of the COVID-19 epidemic as part of the
Lehigh Valley LGBT archive, our project was funded from the Lehigh Valley
engaged consortium. We're meeting on Zoom and so today's date is June 17th --
MH: June 17th, 20--
LB: -- 2020. And thank you so much for your willingness to speak with us today.
To start, can you please state your full name and spell it for me?
MH: Certainly. My full name is Mitchell Hemphill, spelled M-I-T-C-H-E-L-L H-E-M-P-H-I-L-L.
LB: Great. And will you please share your birth date?
00:02:00
MH: Yes. September thirteenth, nineteen sixty.
LB: Okay. So, this is the consent part. So, do you consent to this interview today?
MH: I do consent.
LB: Do you consent to having this interview being transcribed, digitized, and
made publicly available online in searchable formats?
MH: I do consent.
LB: Do you consent to the LGBT Archive using your interview for this --
educational purposes in other formats, including films, archives, websites,
presentations, and other formats?
MH: I do consent.
LB: Do you understand that you will have thirty days after the electronic
delivery of the transcript to review your interview and identify parts you would
like to delete and/or withdraw from your interview from the project?
MH: I understand.
00:03:00
LB: Great. So, here's the deal: we're just going to start right out. And so,
what I'm going to -- just start with this little prompt and then say in the
midst of the current health crisis that we are experience-- we want to take this
opportunity to look back and reflect and to capture the stories of those who
lived through the worst of the HIV/AIDS epidemic in the nineteen eighties and
nineties. So, we just have three things to prompt you. I'm going to start you
right out to say do you remember the first time you became aware of the disease
and just talk about that?
LB: Sure. I may have heard of it before but I wasn't really aware of it until
about nineteen eighty-four or nineteen eighty-five. That's at the point that
people that we knew were starting to get sick. And I believe -- and in nineteen
00:04:00eighty-five, when Rock Hudson, when it was on the news that had HIV and then
died shortly after, I think that really brought it to the attention of a lot
more people. Honestly, even at that point, still, it wasn't very much a part of
our life, it seemed, you know? It was still happening to other people, more so
before that, too. And it seemed like it was happening more so to other people.
It was only happening to people that were very promiscuous or using drugs and so
-- even at that point. And I have to admit, at that time, I was very young. I
was in my early twenties. I had only really come out a few years before that.
And so, I was exploring my own sexuality and really kind of self-focused on my
00:05:00own life and what was going on with me, with work, and relationships, and things
like that. But in eighty-four, I started working at the Stonewall and that's
really when I -- by working there, that's when I started hearing more about it,
although it wasn't -- there wasn't a lot of focus, still, yet and I didn't see
much about it.
LB: Yeah. So, at what point in the crisis were you living in the Lehigh Valley?
So, you were at the Stonewall, you were living there -- here the whole time and
can you speak -- so, talk about that and then also talk about -- can you speak
to what resources or communication or attitudes were going on at the time?
MH: Well, I actually lived in the Lehigh Valley all of my life with the
exception of three years where I lived in Florida, which was from nineteen
eighty-seven to nineteen ninety. So, actually, right in the middle of the peak.
00:06:00But before that, before moving to Florida, in the -- like I said, around
eighty-five is where you started hearing more about it. There didn't seem to me
-- I didn't see a lot of information out in our area at that time. And it may be
my own guilt of not noticing things that were out there but I wasn't paying a
lot of attention to. And I know a lot of people like myself and my circle of
friends, we were more focused on partying (laughs) and enjoying each other's
company than we were about the issues. Also, at that time, I wasn't much of a
news watcher and things like CNN were still in their infancy. So, you weren't
hearing about it on the news and it was considered still a gay disease, you
know, that was affecting gay people only. So, you really didn't hear anything
00:07:00and you didn't get any support from the government about it. In the early days,
there was an organization I was aware of, the AIDS Service Center, although I
was not involved with them other than seeing some of their literature and things
like that. The time, as far as the way people felt at that period of time, and
this going -- before eighty-seven, when I moved, in the early years. To be
honest with you, I think, like myself, a lot of people were still of the opinion
of this was an isolated thing. It wasn't something affecting me, it wasn't going
to affect my lifestyle, and as long as you weren't -- if you were in a
monogamous relationship where you weren't sleeping with somebody that looks
sick, you were fine, you know? Something we all learned later was not really
00:08:00going to be the case. But there didn't seem to be a lot of resources at that
time. But if you weren't looking for them, you weren't going to find them. Until
about nineteen eighty-six, when FACT was formed, that's when things really
developed as far as information getting out there, activism being there. And so,
that's when it became more -- I became more aware of it, myself. That's pretty
much -- like I said, I think, still, like I said in that period of time, there
wasn't a lot going on that you could see, going up to eighty-seven. Then, I did
go -- eighty-seven to nineteen ninety, I lived in Florida. There were some
activities going on there, too, some fundraising events and stuff like that. But
00:09:00to be honest, being around Orlando, which was a vacation spot, promiscuity, et
cetera was in full swing, you know? There was more focus on having fun and the
shows and things like that then there was, actually, on activism about this disease.
LB: Yeah. When you were talking about FACT being formed, that was before you
went away in eighty-seven?
MH: That was actually before I went away. FACT was formed in nineteen
eighty-six. It came out of a friendly competition between the Stonewall bar and
Candida's bar. The staff on both, at both bars, were always doing things with
friendly competition and it kind of built up to what we decided was going to be
a bar competition. At the time, we called it the Bar Olympics.
00:10:00
LB: Right.
MH: And a few forward thinking people, not necessarily that were part of the
actual activities, thought to use this event to actually do something more with
it, raise awareness about AIDS and things like this, and started FACT. So, that
was in eighty-six, eighty-seven I moved to Florida, and then didn't return until
nineteen ninety. So, when I came back in nineteen ninety, things were -- we're
seeing results of the disease within my community and my circle of friends and
things like this.
LB: Well, I want you to talk about that but I just want to get an idea, like,
when FACT was forming in nineteen eighty-six, do you think that that was
happening because people were hearing about the disease or because people had it?
MH: In eighty-six, when it was actually formed, it was -- FACT was formed in our
00:11:00area because we were seeing people we knew who were being affected by it, that
had it, and were already passing away, you know?
LB: Right.
MH: And within our community, we knew that the government wasn't really doing
much of anything for it. The health departments really weren't doing anything.
And to raise awareness and do something about it, we kind of had to do it on our
own. And that was one of the reasons, you know, with founding FACT, although it
was supporting the entire community, not just gay and lesbian, you know, people
and LGBTQ, but it opened itself up, knowing it had to do everything for the
entire community and have those services for everyone. That was a big step
forward, you know, and drove a lot of things, I think with, like, the Allentown
Health Bureau and different -- made more things available and brought more
00:12:00information out there as a result of it.
LB: Yeah. In nineteen eighty-six, when these things were happening, do you think
that people were -- they were changing their behavior? I mean, you were raising
money with FACT. What was the money for? Because in eighty-six, I don't know
whether there was medication. I was just moving to Lehigh Valley then, so I
wasn't as aware of that. But, like, when they were trying to raise money, what
was the money for? Was it for education?
MH: The money at that point, as I understood it, with my involvement with them,
in the beginning, was a lot of it, it had to do with helping people that were
HIV-positive. It had to do with educating the public. It had to do with getting
materials like condoms out in bars and literature out in bars and making people
00:13:00more aware of it within the community. And, like I said, obviously, they, you
know, were open to the entire population of our area. However, that was where
the focus needed to be because our community was being affected in a higher
ratio than the community at large. So, that's really where their focus was, to
educate, to -- there was money, as they went down the line, that was made
available, like, through grants for different other organizations. So, they're
almost, like, a parent organization to other organizations. But the main thing
was to get the word out, to get the materials out so that people understood
better what was going on and how to help prevent it from spreading.
LB: I think there was, perhaps, a time, and maybe you could comment on this,
where people didn't know where it was coming from. They just thought it was a
gay disease that gay people were getting but they didn't really know how it was
00:14:00communicated. Were you sort of aware of --
MH: Definitely was the case, especially in the earlier days. And I think a lot
of us -- and like I say, I was young and a bit selfish, you know, with my own
life at that time. Had it been happening when I was in my forties, perhaps I
would have been different. But a lot of people really just thought this was
something that affected a small group of people in other places, you know? Like
I say, it's only the people that are going to the bathhouses or, you know, that
have way too many partners or, you know, people that were IV drug users, we
heard about it, and were also being affected by it. But I don't think it was
something that we thought of as a community so much was going to affect us
individually. It's not going to get me. Kind of like the young people right now
00:15:00with this pandemic. I'm strong, I'm young, and if I do get it, I'll beat it, you
know? And I think that attitude, it wasn't -- I think I had that attitude and I
believe a lot of other people did, as well. And, you know, coming from the
freedom of the seventies and the sexual freedom and everything we experienced as
a community that you were able to do without having to worry about somebody
getting pregnant, you know, that's one of the reasons that it was spreading so
rampantly through the community. But we really didn't think that it was going to
affect me personally. And I think a lot of my circle of friends and a lot of
people that I waited on as customers and knew from the bar, I think they felt
the same way until, like I said, around eighty-six -- was when we were starting
to see people we actually knew getting sick with it. And back then, with what
little you did hear about it -- was that if you did get it, it was a death
00:16:00sentence, you know? because people were getting very sick and people were dying
rather quickly in the beginning.
LB: Yeah.
MH: You know? So, that was eighty-six, when FACT was formed. And then, by the
time I came back from Florida in nineteen ninety, a lot more people were
affected and a lot more people that I knew were affected. And I went to a lot of
funerals and I got to the point, in the early nineties, where I just felt I
can't go to one more funeral because I had been to so many where I had seen
friends and people that I had known, you know, pass away from this thing. But
even then, to be honest with you, the mentality of myself, even -- I'm guilty of
this. I'm one of those lucky fools because I wasn't even tested myself. I didn't
get tested until about nineteen ninety-one . In 1990, I moved back to be with my
00:17:00current partner of, where -- my husband and we've been together for thirty
years. But before -- and to be honest with you, I'm not proud to say this but I
tried to have monogamous relationships throughout my life but in between those
relationships, I lived a free life and I did a lot of things that were not safe
and I was a bit of a hypocrite because even after the formation of FACT, I would
encourage people to use safe sex, and -- if it's abstinence and everything that
was involved with trying not to get this disease. But myself, I was not
following the rules. And when I took that test in -- around nineteen ninety-one,
I was actually of the opinion and thought I'm definitely going to show up
positive because I did too many things that were too risky. I drank too much in
00:18:00those days and I made some very poor decisions. And I knew of some people that I
had been involved with that actually had contracted the disease and then later
passed away from it. So, I thought it's a given and my only protection was not
to do things with my current husband that could put him at risk. So, when I
actually got the test back negative, I was actually kind of surprised, you know?
LB: Wow. Is that why it took you a while to get tested, because you were afraid --
MH: I think so. I think I was kind of, in my head, it's going to be positive,
you know? But ignorance is no excuse, you know? And I can't really relate that
to something that's going on in this situation other than the -- my behavior, I
was a hypocrite. It's like telling somebody you should be wearing a mask but
00:19:00then I go out and don't wear one myself, you know? So, yeah, it was a hard time
within my own mind, too, and I don't know if a lot of other people struggled
this way. I contemplated -- like, this interview, I'm not the best example of it
because I wasn't the best hero, definitely, through that period. I was doing the
things that I was telling other people not to do and I was the lucky fool in
this case.
LB: Weren't there other people that were doing that too, though?
MH: Oh, I know there were, yes. There were multitudes of people doing that. But,
you know, when you look at it and you think of the things you have done to try
to help with the epidemic and stuff like that -- but while not following your
own words, you know? And I was guilty of that, you know? It was something that I
think a lot of people within my age group, you know, that are now coming on
sixty and, you know, a little younger and older, we were all pretty much doing
00:20:00the same thing and we were very quick to be a part of the organizations, go to
the fundraisers, do these kinds of things, and go to the fun things, you know?
The Summer Games were fun, you know, to be a part of them, to be there. Going to
the Snowball, the FACT Snow Ball, that was fun. You got to dress up. It was kind
of like just another event. And you all often lost sight of why you were
actually doing it while there were people in the background always working. You
know, some of the people, you know, that I've known through time, like Carl
Mancino and David Moyer and people like this that were doing all the hard work
through all of that, you know? But it's a time I look back on and say I didn't
deserve to make it through it, in some ways, you know? And I'm sure there's a
lot of people that feel the same way, you know?
00:21:00
LB: What was the hard work? I mean, what were some of the things that you saw --
MH: The hard work is actually living what you're saying, you know? Doing -- not
only just doing the fundraising and actually doing the work of an organization
but also walking the walk and talking the talk. Not just saying this is what you
should do, you should be safe, you should be using condoms, you should be doing
this and then going out on your own and doing otherwise, you know? And like I
say, I know a lot of people, they -- we've talked about this, you know, looking
back, and it's, like, how did we survive this when our friends who were less
active, even, didn't, you know? We knew people that actually had had one sexual
encounter and that was it, you know? But this was all before they had the
medications that they have now to make it that it is not a death sentence.
LB: Yeah.
MH: You know?
LB: Did you know people that were taking care of other people, who were -- you
00:22:00know, people who were caring for people that were dying or sick?
MH: Just indirectly, for the most part, you know? And, yes, and that was -- in
the nineties, there were numerous people I -- that took such a toll on the
people that were the caregivers. I can only relate to it having taken care of my
father until he passed [at the? ] first of the year. But there is quite a
struggle for a lot of people that not only had to, you know, deal with this --
and from the entire community as a whole, you know, that were taking care of
people like that and having to watch them waste away, especially in the early
days, you know? There wasn't -- the drugs that were out there really weren't
extending life and it wasn't making life better, you know? So, the early days
were really rough and a lot of us, people like me, sometimes it was easier to
look the other way. But then, when a friend of yours died, it brought it right
00:23:00back to the forefront and it was, like, you know, why are we forgetting about
this, you know?
LB: Yeah.
MH: Was a lot of that.
LB: So, when you were doing the -- talk a little bit about the magazine because
[I think it? ] --
MH: Well, when I did come back -- like I said, I helped with the formation of
FACT and I was doing that. That was my involvement and I was a little bit, you
know, involved with some of the work on the fundraisers and things like that in
the early years, then I moved to Florida. When I came back, like I mentioned, in
the early nineties, that's when people were being more affected. But I started
Above Ground magazine and launched that in November of nineteen ninety-four. And
the reason for launching the magazine was because the LGBQT (sic) -- the
community in Lehigh Valley no longer had a periodical, you know, that -- and it
00:24:00was something that was needed, it was missing for a period of time, since other
things had fallen apart. So, it was an entertainment and information monthly
magazine that I put out. And one of the things that I made available through it
was access to the HIV/AIDS groups so they could advertise their events, put in
articles, you know, different things like that. And I would actually always go
to the big events and give them some publicity and things like that so people
kept aware of it. And the magazine I had ran for -- I had it for three years,
until I sold it in nineteen ninety-seven. And then, shortly after, it stopped
being published. But it was filling a need at that time, which was filled by
other things in the meantime. Some, notably -- (laughs) but at the time, there
00:25:00was really nothing out there, so you didn't know about these events other than
that. And that was one way that it actually spread throughout the community and
into the surrounding areas and people were made more aware of these different
events, as well. So, I hope to think that it did something to help in that way.
LB: Yeah.
MH: [You know? ]?
LB: Oh, yeah, no question. So, what do you think, in terms of activism, I mean,
you did some significant things with activism and we saw the continuation of
FACT over all of that time. And things began to change in terms of medications
and stuff. In about nineteen ninety-three, I think that really began to change.
How did that seem different to you? Did you see any kind of difference or did
you see people still being actually more aware of things?
MH: I actually believe people were -- after I came back from Florida, I did go
back to work at the Stonewall again and I worked there for another eight years
00:26:00or so. And so, you know, just having to see the view of how people are reacting
in the bar scene, do you know what I mean? There was a difference made. You
know, the work of FACT and other organizations like that actually was working
and people were being less promiscuous, in my opinion. I think people were
starting to show, you know, safe sex practices more. They were involved. Over
time, after the medications became better and treatment became better, I think
there was less urgency with a lot of people. Like, we have to do something and
we have to do something about this now, you know? However, I think that it did
make a change. Now, whether that change is still relevant today is a little
different. For a short period of time, sometime after two-thousand, for a very
00:27:00short period of time, I worked part-time in the Stonewall's coat check, for
their underage night.
LB: Ah.
MH: And all of the materials are there. I think that they have a different sense
-- the younger generation definitely has a younger sense and they're more aware
of how easy they can contract the disease from another person, although they
don't have the same fear that a lot of people did, especially in the nineties,
you know, because of the advances that have been made, you know, through
medicines and treatments.
LB: Yeah.
MH: So, I wouldn't say that they're ignoring it. I think they're still behaving
better than we did in the early '80s, I really do. I think in a lot of ways,
they're more responsible. But, like I say, good medicine also makes you little
00:28:00more comfortable with thinking that if I do get it, they can take care of it,
you know? Which does nothing to stop the spread.
LB: Right, right, right.
MH: Yeah.
LB: So, how did you think -- with the competition between the bars that really
began FACT and began those kinds of things, that part atmosphere that made
things more fun in some ways, do you think that that was something that really
encouraged people to become involved?
MH: Oh, absolutely. To be honest with you, if it was less fun, you wouldn't have
had people coming to it. You know, sometimes you have to kind of make things fun
to make it worth people to do things, you know? It's difficult. Right now,
(inaudible) we're looking at the pandemic, with the COVID-19, how do you really
00:29:00encourage people by doing something fun to do the right thing or to -- you know,
it's a totally different situation in that it really can affect anyone and
everyone. It's an even more invisible thing and it's, you know, so much easier
spread that people just don't -- they don't realize how severe it is, you know?
What we had to deal with with the AIDS epidemic was kind of compartmentalized,
you know what I mean? It was only affecting people that were having sex with
each other or transferring blood, you know, through the use of different needles
and stuff like that. But it was something that -- at least you weren't going to
get it just by walking up to somebody and talking to them, you know? One of the
things that was a parallel that I see was to the way I felt when I was younger
00:30:00and AIDS came out, we were young. And, you know what? We're strong and we will
get through this and it will not affect us and if I get it, I will beat it. I
saw that, especially if they close down things and I'd see big groups of people
on the basketball courts: younger people, still playing, you know? And that
feeling that you're invincible when you're younger, it's difficult with younger
people, you know? So, it's such a different situation now than the AIDS crisis
was. But, at the same time, there are a lot of parallels that we see and one of
the things, if we as the gay community hadn't kind of taken hold of it
ourselves, it would have been left to just run rampant, you know what I mean? We
weren't getting support from the, you know, Reagan/Bush government. We weren't
00:31:00getting support by a lot of people in general because they thought this was a
gay disease. It was only affecting gay people and it was only affecting drug
users, so better to it. I mean, even leading to some conspiracy theories, you
know, that it was actually put out there on purpose to wipe us out, you know?
But one of the parallels I see to this and our situation now is actually the way
that a lot of people in the government are trying to make it seem as if it's a
non-issue, it doesn't exist, you know? We can look the other way, it'll just go
away, you know? And that, we saw when we had the AIDS epidemic. It was, like,
this is a small, isolated thing. It's only affecting, you know, this type of
people. It's nothing for us to worry about, you know, until it started going
into the population as a whole and heterosexual couples had to worry about it,
00:32:00too, and it was, like, this is something that could be spread that way. So, it
was a difficult time going through that. But, unfortunately, I'm one of the
examples of the, like, I say the lucky fools that, even though I was doing
everything I could to help promote information about it and promote people to do
the right thing, I wasn't necessarily doing the right thing, you know? And so,
I'm fortunate that I can look at that in hindsight and know that I didn't
contract it myself. And, more importantly, I didn't pass it on to someone else,
you know? This epidemic here, you can get it, you may not even get very sick.
But you can pass it on to so many other people, so --
LB: Yeah, in terms of contagion, really, HIV is very hard to pass on just to
another --
MH: Correct.
00:33:00
LB: -- [you know, to? ] --
MH: You can't pass it through the skin, it's not breathed in. It's something
that has to be done through a bodily fluid.
LB: But do you remember a time when people had no idea how it was passed and so
there was [no? ] --
MH: Oh, yes, I do. You know, at first, when you'd first heard about it -- and
like I say, I was mostly -- really became aware of it around eighty-four,
eighty-five, when I started working at the bar because that's when you'd
actually hear some inklings about it and people that were a little bit more
aware and actually took the time to look into this when they were hearing about
it and reading about it in the news. Before that, like I say, I believe I'd
heard of it, you know? And then, in the beginning, we really didn't know what
was happening. In the early days, I think, from when it came out around eighty
and eighty-one that they saw the first cases of this, they were just telling us
they didn't really know what was happening but it was affecting heterosexual
males I mean, homosexual males more than other people and so it was kind of
00:34:00focused on the group. So, no, we didn't know and, to be honest, we didn't know
that it wasn't the government or some group trying to actually wipe us out. We
didn't know that. That's why these theories come up. Until science took a hold
of it and funding came in, we didn't really find out all the details of what
caused it, where it came from, and how it was transmitted. One of the things --
I wasn't very politically motivated until leading up to the elections in
nineteen ninety-two. And one of the main focuses of that was because of the way
the government was responding to the AIDS epidemic and it was important that,
then, Bill Clinton got into office and got the Reagan/Bush era over so that we
could see something done. And we did, you know? That's when you really saw a lot
00:35:00more information come out from the scientists.
LB: And maybe there's a tie-in, do you think, between that and when people were
really understanding about it? I guess people who had been infected, people who
were scientists, people who were doctors had enough information then and they
could begin to make scientifically informed --
MH: Oh, definitely. And, well, there was more motivation -- there wasn't a lot
of motivation to push for it, to give money for the funding into the research
into it in the beginning because of who it was affecting. Had AIDS been only
affecting rich, white businessmen, they would have had funding a lot quicker.
But like I say, there wasn't -- a lot of funding has to come through the
government. And so, if it's not being funded for the research and to find out
00:36:00what this is, to actually look at it and say this is going to be a problem and
we got to take care of it, in the early days, that wasn't there, you know? And
so, as a result, none of us knew, really, what was going on. And if there was
science coming out, it wasn't coming out to us.
LB: In the Lehigh Valley, do you remember any kind of political response or any
kind of elected officials who talked about it or didn't talk about it or
supported the rights and stuff that had an effect on that?
MH: I really don't have a big memory of that. And perhaps during the time from
eighty-seven to ninety, when I was actually out of the Lehigh Valley, there may
have been more of that. I knew that there were people within the health
department that were very focused on it. But that was actually coming a little
bit later, once there was more knowledge of what it was. But I didn't really
00:37:00notice a feeling of support or denial or anything like that coming from, you
know, government. It almost felt, to be honest with you, back then, it felt like
this was our problem, we had to take care of it. Nobody else cares, nobody else
is even looking at it, and so if anything's going to be done, we have to do it
as our own community. And I honestly believe that communities across the
country, that's how a lot of this got done. Philadelphia having a bigger city
and a lot more different groups and stuff like that and activism, that kind of
filtered to us, some of that. They were more active before we were in this area,
I think, in a lot of ways.
LB: In nineteen ninety-three, people in the Lehigh Valley who -- and this really
came out of the bars -- organized a bunch of buses to go to the March on
Washington in nineteen ninety-three.
MH: Yes, yes. I actually didn't go on that march. But, yeah, that was a big
00:38:00thing. It really was. Wish I had gone. It was one of those things that I didn't
go, probably because something was going on with one of my relationships at that
time. No, actually, no, that was ninety-three, so, you know, I think I was just
too focused on work and things like that. But after hearing about it and seeing
people bring back pictures and stuff and [come back with? ] camaraderie -- it
was a wonderful experience for a lot of people that I wish I'd been a part of,
you know?
LB: I think that the Pride festival in the Lehigh Valley grew out of that. So,
were you involved with Pride during the beginning times of that?
MH: I was. And when Pride first started, one of the ways I was actually involved
with Pride was doing graphic work for them. Now, let's see, Pride started --
LB: Nineteen ninety --
00:39:00
MH: around nineteen ninety-four, three, ninety-four? Yeah, at that time,
ninety-four, I had started the magazine. And before that, I was actually doing a
newsletter for the Stonewall. And so, I was doing some kinds of graphic things.
And some of the board members from Pride actually came to me and I did their,
like, their booklet for the day of Pride and things for the first two years. And
then, obviously, with working within the bar situation, we were able to promote
things to a lot of people. And the bar itself making -- was very supportive of
all kinds of things, always showing -- actually, all of the bars were as far as
getting literature out there for people to read, making announcements, doing
fundraisers within their own bars. And so, yeah, that, I think the Pride event
00:40:00grew out of that and some other things and our community already coming together
because of the AIDS crisis. So, I think that helped strengthen that, as well.
LB: Yeah, I think that's a big deal.
MH: Yeah, it is.
LB: So, as things went on and the various different stuff kind of wound down for
the AIDS community, I mean, I think if we look back at that, there were some
pretty key people that were making things happen in those days. And can you
mention some of those folks and what they --
MH: Oh, yeah, in the early days, I mean, we lost some people that actually were
-- Ken [Tall? ] was an example. But Dave Moyer, Carl Mancino. There were people
that were just part of -- they weren't part of the LGBTQ community but they were
00:41:00actually close friends and stuff and they became very instrumental, as well. Off
the top of my head, coming up with names, those are two people that did a
significant amount in those days, especially with FACT and things like that. But
there were so many people involved and, to be honest with you, I wasn't as
involved with the organizations other than, for instance, with the startup of
it, promoting their events, perhaps, and like I said, helping with organizing
some of the events. And I did concession stand -- I was in charge of concessions
and stuff in the second Summer Games and things like that but --
LB: [Tell me a? ] little bit about the summer games because people in the future
should hear about that because they were pretty wonderful.
MH: They were fun. First of all, like I say, they came out of a fun competition
between competing bars. And they built into a much larger thing. At first, it
00:42:00only included Candida's and the Stonewall, which, you know, because of our
friendship with each other and our competition with each other -- but then,
after the first year, then it was decided that we were going to make an event
and it was going to be a FACT event now that FACT had been formed. And so, other
bars were invited, as well, from outside of the Lehigh Valley. There was bars
from Reading, there was bars from Wilkes-Barre, Scranton. So, you had bars from
other areas coming in and bringing more people in and learning about these
things. One other thing about the summer games was it was a lot of fun. It was
fun to watch, it was fun events. There was swimming, there was, you know, things
like a drag competition where people would have to do a relay race getting into
00:43:00different outfits and stuff. A lot of fun. But one of the things that I remember
the most we would get to the end of the competition and there would be a
ceremony at the end and that is when everybody had time to actually remember
what we were doing there with candlelight vigils, sometimes the naming of names
and remember what we were doing there and take time to reflect on that. And that
was a very heartwarming part of those events. So, like I said, the different
events were always a lot of fun. You want people to do things, you want people
to participate, you got to make them fun. The Snowball, a lot of people didn't
do the Snowball as they thought it was a little bit elitist because everybody
was renting tuxes and going like this. So, they said, well, I can't afford to
rent a tux and if I don't wear one -- you know, and over the years, that changed
00:44:00somewhat. There was a lot less people worrying so much about what they looked
like and just enjoying the event. But the summer games was one thing where
everybody could just show up, was a big ol' picnic, kind of atmosphere. And
Rainbow Mountain resort in the Poconos hosted it for most of that period of time
until it moved past that. But, yeah, for people that didn't experience that, at
a time in our community, it was just something where you could bring all kinds
of bars from all different areas and people from those areas together, just have
a great day. But at the same time, you're doing something for a wonderful cause.
And that makes people feel good, that you can actually still have fun and you're
doing something good.
LB: Yeah, great.
MH: Yeah, it brought our community together, too. I mean, beyond the AIDS
epidemic and, you know, it strengthened our community as we moved forward
00:45:00looking into our own rights. So, some of the things that came out of that
epidemic were then -- we as a community became stronger. We became used to
getting together and doing things together, which made us stronger going into
the nineties with the elections and as we go down the line. And then, the
different organizations that -- you know, has the voter's guide that came out
and the -- now with the Bradbury-Sullivan Center, you know what I mean, there's
so many things that would have been unthought of actually years ago. There was
little fringe things here and there but they never got a full acceptance and
support of community. And so, like I say, our community is actually better off
-- not that we had the disease come through us but how we came together for it.
LB: Were you involved with Le-Hi-Ho?
00:46:00
MH: Le-Hi-Ho, that goes back pretty far and I don't have a lot of memory of
that. I believe Le-Hi-Ho is back in the late seventies, perhaps?
LB: The eighties, I think.
MH: Was it eighties?
LB: Yeah.
MH: Yeah, there was some -- I have to be honest, I'm not the best one for an
interview because a lot of my time was spent inebriated. (laughs) Let's just get
right to it. When I was young, I drank a lot. I had a lot of fun. But those were
the days. I graduated from high school at seventeen, moved out of the house at
seventeen into my first apartment. Had just realized that I was gay, finding out
what gay was, and was living to -- exploring myself, you might say. It was a
00:47:00different time coming off of the craziness of the seventies, so --
LB: Where did you go to high school?
MH: I went to school in a high school in Emmaus, just outside of Allentown. So,
I grew up in a pretty small, somewhat privileged area. And then, like I said, I
was in a big hurry to move out to the big city of Allentown as soon as I could
and I hadn't even turned eighteen yet, yeah.
LB: Yeah.
MH: [You know? ]?
LB: I didn't ask a whole bunch of demographic questions on this. I don't think
this really -- oh, well, it does ask you what your zip code is. We're supposed
to day what your zip code --
MH: Oh, well, right now, I'm in one-eight-oh-five-two, which is the Whitehall
area, but --
LB: Yeah. So, is the reason that you came back to the Lehigh Valley because you
just missed it so much? Or was there some reason why --
MH: Because everybody comes back (laughs) that's from here. I moved to Florida
00:48:00with a boyfriend at the time. Things didn't work out so well and then you come
home, you know? Actually, while I was here on vacation, I met my current husband
and came back to be with him. And then, like I said, we've been together for
thirty years now. So, it's not a bad area and it's not -- we don't get as much
cold weather as up north. (laughs) So, that's why I came back to this area. It's home.
LB: Yeah. And I guess, see, in this list, they didn't -- they ask, in the COVID
thing, that you're supposed to identify yourself within the community. So, in
other words, how do you identify your LGBT-ness? And so, you would say what --
how would you identify your --
MH: Within the current situation, really?
00:49:00
LB: No, no, just, like, I would identify myself as a lesbian, in other words.
MH: Oh, I identify as gay, I'm -- you know, but --
LB: [That's? ] easy, okay.
MH: Yes.
LB: Well, I think -- so, here's one thing I think everybody should ask and --
because we hope that someday in the future, somebody will look at this and get a
sense of, you know, various different people's experiences with the HIV/AIDS
epidemic. And it is true that we Baby Boomers are the ones that went through
this in our twenties and now we're at a different age. We're about to go through
the aging epidemic, as well, since that's another thing. But what would you want
somebody in the future to know, like, in terms of what that was like? I mean, if
you were just going to sort of describe what the AIDS epidemic was like to
somebody who had no sense of what it was like -- and I think there are young
00:50:00people today who really don't have any sense of what it was like.
MH: I think more so than anything, I would like them to know that hopefully
sometime in the future when there's no real recollection of that, I hope that we
as a community are accepted just as -- the same as anyone else in the community,
that our -- as the gay community is no longer the gay community, you know? I'm
hoping that would be that but the case would be that we were at a time then
where we still considered less than, being part of our community. And we had
something that struck us really hard but we showed a strength that probably
would not have been imagined. And we pulled ourselves up by our boot straps and
we took care of it on our own when the government wasn't there to do so, you
00:51:00know? It was a time of a lot of pain but there was a lot of camaraderie and a
lot of good things actually did come out of the situation, so -- although it was
a difficult time for a lot of people, we lost a lot of friends, we lost family
members, a lot of good actually did come out of the situation for us because we
became stronger.
LB: Yeah. I want to ask you one more thing because you brought it up because you
were talking about how you became aware of this sort of -- of HIV/AIDS because
of Rock Hudson. And I think people don't have an understanding of how
significant Rock Hudson's circumstance was. And there were some other famous
people that --
MH: Yeah.
LB: -- spoke out about -- but you want to say a little bit more about that?
because I don't know if people would always really get what happened.
MH: That was actually something, by somebody of his stature coming out. And for
00:52:00somebody of my age, we thought of him as McMillan from McMillan and Wife, you
know, even more so than the movies, in the black and white movies and stuff. But
he was a leading man. He was everything. So, from a gay person's point of view,
I almost wonder if -- he brought attention to it but we were also looking as,
like, well, look, he was gay, you know? And we were almost more focused on that
when the whole thing arrived than we were on the fact that this guy has HIV. And
at that point, we thought, well, he came out -- that he had HIV. It's, like, oh,
he must be gay because this is a -- you know, we were still being told this was
a gay disease. But for somebody like that, somebody in the public eye like that,
that meant so much to older people, too, older than us at that time. That meant
a lot. It's, like, oh, wow.
LB: Yeah.
MH: He's, like, Rock Hudson and he got this disease. And I think it made people
00:53:00think, you know what? I can get this, too. It was really big. Other people did
talk about it frequently. You know, we had Magic Johnson come out, that was very
big, to have somebody that wasn't homosexual get the disease, come out publicly
about it. I think that was really a big turning point because this wasn't
somebody that was gay, to our knowledge, at least. And so, when celebrities or
famous people like this actually can show that "this can happen to us, too" and
then they relate their story and they actually speak out in support of a cause
like that, it means the world, it really does, just like right now, with this
epidemic, you're seeing so many famous people, celebrities, whatever you would
call them actually speaking up: "Wear a mask, you know? It's not that hard. This
is very important. This is a serious issue. " Without that, a lot of people
00:54:00would actually ignore it completely. So, that was an important turning point and
it really was and -- as were some of the people that got -- contracted it and
came into public view after that, even more so -- there's other people that may
have been more known to the gay community but not to the entire population of
our country that -- that's why, to me, that was extremely important and that's
why it made you notice it right then and there and this is a real thing.
LB: Yeah, it' pretty -- it was remarkable. And even Elizabeth Taylor's response
and --
MH: Yeah.
LB: -- you know, that kind of stuff, too.
MH: Yeah. And when, like, for instance, when Liberace died, he didn't do a lot
for -- the fact that he denied that he was gay throughout his lifetime. He
didn't talk about having AIDS throughout his lifetime. It was done -- all that
00:55:00came out posthumously. So, that did nothing, really, to help in eradicating the
disease. It takes a lot for a celebrity, even knowing that he's going to pass
away soon to know that everything he's done and the way he wants to be
remembered, this is what you may be remembered for but this is important. So,
that actually was something that really meant a lot at that time and especially,
like I said, to be a leading man like that, a heartthrob to so many heterosexual
Americans, you know what I mean? It was a very important -- yes.
LB: Great. Well, is there anything else you want to add that you're thinking --
MH: No, no. I wish I -- like I said, I thought to myself I didn't know that I
would be a good candidate for this because I wasn't one of those heroes that
walked the straight and narrow. But I think I'm more an example of how a lot of
00:56:00people were back then, you know? Like I say that the knowledge wasn't there in
the beginning and then it was a bit sketchy as we did get it. And a lot of us
still carried on, thinking this won't affect me. When we look at this pandemic
right now, I have a whole different world of thought. Not only did we hear right
away from experts and scientists of what it is, how dangerous this could be, but
every person that I know that's in the medical profession says this is serious.
And these are Republicans and Democrats and Independents, you know? But when it
came to this disease, they weren't hedging on it. And so, to see people not take
it seriously is scary. It is scary. Like I say, the AIDS epidemic was a little
00:57:00bit different, you know? It wasn't as easily transmitted by any measure. But
when you see some of the ways -- you know, I think about -- I somewhat had a
somewhat cavalier attitude back then and I see that to the nth degree right now
with something that's far more contagious, you know? So, that's just fuel for
thought, you know?
LB: It is, it's --
MH: I believe, to be honest with you, too, as far as our own community, I think
we're more -- I see very few people that I know from the LGBTQ community that
aren't watching this closely, aren't very cautious about it, and a lot of that
may come from the fact that we went through this. We went through an epidemic of
our own, on a smaller scale, but we know this is serious business. And, like I
00:58:00say, with that community, I'm not seeing the same kind of divisiveness I'm
seeing through people in general and the way they ignore it, you know what I
mean, and don't take it seriously. So, [I don't know? ].
LB: Hashtag not our first virus.
MH: What's that?
LB: Hashtag not our first virus.
MH: Not our first virus, absolutely, absolutely.
LB: [Thanks that we're? ] --
MH: And although we may not have individually dealt with it so well then, now
that I'm older, more mature, now more so than ever, my biggest fear is that I
get it and give it to someone else, you know? That was something that was part
of our epidemic at the time. With maturity comes the understanding of that.
LB: I just want to say, Mitch, that when you were doing Above Ground and I was
writing an article for it, I remember one time me sitting in your office and you
00:59:00were showing me how to use that program that -- Corel.
MH: Corel Draw that I used to use, yeah.
LB: (inaudible) [and hook it, yeah? ], and when I was watching you set up the
graphics on it and then, soon after, the magazine, your magazine was over and I
started the Valley Gay Press and I used Corel for eight years.
MH: Did you? (laughs)
LB: So, well, I could probably do this. And Mitch is doing it and he's -- and I
really -- I wrote the paper in Corel --
MH: Yeah.
LB: -- and typed it in in Corel and [part of it was? ] just because you were
doing it that way. And I ran that paper for eighteen years.
MH: Yes.
LB: So, it grew out of [the stuff you learned? ] and I thought Above Ground was
a huge inspiration to a lot of people. People really paid attention to it and
read things in it. And, you know, Steve Black wrote political articles in it and
01:00:00we really covered information to a lot of people and we began --
MH: Steve Black, there's another one who was so involved with so many different
things, especially in the political field with us --
LB: Yeah, yeah.
MH: -- [another one? ].
LB: Yeah, [just? ] Steve in my office and at the center. He was amazing.
MH: Yeah, yeah. There was actually so many people that we've lost over the years
that -- and, like I say, you almost become numb to it. And then, when you think
about somebody, it was -- it took a lot of people that it shouldn't have.
LB Yeah.
MH: There's a lot of people that passed away that never allowed it to even be
said that that's what they passed away from, you know?
LB: And Steve died of AIDS.
MH: I know he did, yeah, yeah, because -- yeah. And he had said something to me
about it. But he did not want that to be out as public knowledge, either, and a
lot of people didn't, you know, that were suffering through that. It was [a
01:01:00pitiful? ] --
LB: [Yeah? ], that he had it.
MH: Yeah.
LB: It was too late by the time --
MH: Yeah.
LB: It was [clear? ] that he had it.
MH: So, it was too late and also too early as far as the medical advances they
had made, yeah, yeah.
LB: Yeah. So, well, thank you very, very much for talking to us about this. This
is really terrific that you've done this and I -- let me just remind you again,
I'm supposed to do that, to say that, let's see, that, you know, you -- we're
going to -- this Zoom meeting is private and so it has a password entry so
there's no, you know, other people on this or anything like that. And we, I just
want to remind you again, that once this is done and I upload this and then
they'll send it to be transcribed and then you'll be able to review it. We'll
01:02:00send it to you in an email so that you can read through the whole thing. And if
there's things in it that you want to change or add or rearrange or [look at? ] --
MH: Absolutely. Will they look at it at any point and say we should edit certain
parts of this or --
LB: [Not -- not? ] --
MH: No? Okay. All right. I just wonder if -- I get a bit long-winded sometimes.
LB: No, and I don't think that's the case at all. I thought that you were really
great and fascinating. But I think that, you know, people may listen to this in
the future and what they would do -- and I think I'm going to stop it now
because we're just chatting.
MH: Okay.
LB: Turn this off --
END OF AUDIO FILE