Nan Kozul, June 17, 2020 (Part 1)

NAN KOZUL - PART 1

LIZ BRADBURY: -- computer, yes. Now, I have to read you these things. So, with this project, the Bradbury Sullivan LGBT Community Center at Trexler Library at Muhlenberg College, will collaborate on 40 years of public health experiences in the Lehigh Valley LGBT community collecting and curating local LGBT health experiences from HIV/AIDS to COVID-19. So, this is the HIV/AIDS part. My name's Liz Bradbury. I'm here with Nan Kozul to talk to her about her experiences in the Lehigh Valley community during this time of the COVID-19 pandemic as part of the Lehigh Valley LGBT Community Archive. And this project had funding from Lehigh Valley -- I'm not supposed to say that, so I'm going to cross that off. Okay. Has had funding to do this data collection. We're meeting on Zoom and this is, the date of this is June seventeenth, twenty-twenty. And we're talking 00:01:00specifically about HIV/AIDS epidemic in the early part of the epidemic. Thank you so much for your willingness to speak with me today and to make this Zoom video. Can you please state your full name and spell it for me?

NAN KOZUL: Nan, N-A-N, Kozul, K-O-Z-U-L.

LB: Okay, and will you please share your birth date?

NK: May fifteenth, nineteen fifty-eight.

LB: Okay, and now this is the consent part, do you consent to this interview today?

NK: I do. (laughs)

LB: Do you consent to having this interview being transcribed, digitized, and made publicly available online in searchable formats?

NK: I do.

LB: Do you consent to the LGBT Archive using your interview for educational purposes in other formats including films, articles, websites, presentations, 00:02:00and other formats?

NK: I do.

LB: And do you understand that you will have thirty days after the electronic delivery of the transcript to review your interview and identify any parts you'd like to delete or withdraw or change from the project?

NK: I do.

LB: All right, okay. So, this has got pretty short little questions here in terms of asking you things. So, the first thing I'm going to say is that in the midst of this current health crisis we're experiencing, we're taking this opportunity to look back and reflect to capture the stories of those who lived through the worst of the HIV/AIDS epidemic in the nineteen eighties and nineties in the Lehigh Valley. So, let's just start out by saying do you remember the first time you became aware of the disease? And you could say anything you want, so, you know, you don't have to just stick to that. What do you think?

NK: Well, I was bartending -- Dina opened her bar, Candida's in nineteen eighty. 00:03:00Prior to that, I was visiting the Stonewall and pouring there but once Dina opened her bar, I started bartending there. And it was when HIV first started -- it had happened in the bigger cities, so it was more prominent, like, in New York, Philly. It didn't feel like it hit so close to home that early. But eventually, it started to. And so, it was a hard time because being gay at that time and then having HIV on top of it being there, it was difficult.

LB: Yeah. What were some of the things that kind of made you aware that this was happening? Like, were you hearing outside information about it and then also stuff that was happening around the community?

NK: I heard more, like, watching the news. I saw a lot of news features. And 00:04:00then, of course, we were talking about it in the bar. And there was primarily a male clientele that came into Candida's in the beginning. I mean, it was a busy bar all the time but it was a lot of guys and -- but it was interesting because what happened was the -- I remember I had, just as the epidemic started, I had gone to a new dentist in Allentown. And so, I went to get my teeth cleaned and I'm sitting in the chair and the dentist and the hygienist, they were really animated, they were fun. I was talking to them and they were, like, "So, where do you work?" And I'm, like, "I work for a drug dealer but I also work at a bar." And they were, like, "Oh, where do you work?" And I said, "Candida's." And they left the room and I was sitting there (laughs) and then they came back in. And when they came back in, they were donned with gowns, gloves, and a facemask.

LB: Wow.

NK: And the whole mood changed from, you know, being light and fun to very serious. They cleaned my teeth, I paid them, and left. And I sat in the car and I was just so blown away with how I was treated. And it hurt me and it just caught me so off guard. I wasn't expecting that.

LB: When was that, in the epidemic?

NK: Right in the beginning. because working in the medical field right now, I see the fear of COVID-19 and so, it's an interesting dynamic to see, to experience both. Because back -- we didn't really know a whole lot about HIV 00:06:00other than that it was a blood -- you know, like it was transmitted through blood. And then, with this COVID-19, it was transmitted through air. And, you know, people just generally are scared. And so, it's been an interesting few months, just going through this and dealing with patients that are COVID positive and how we have to protect ourselves.

LB: Yeah.

NK: And I think about that patient sitting in the chair, thinking, wow, I was that person but I didn't have HIV. I was just a gay person and I was labeled right away and feared right away just because of the --

LB: And do you think that was because at that time, people really had no idea where it was coming from? Or they were just overly concerned?

NK: I think they weren't sure how it was transmitted, so they wanted to take all precautions. But I just thought the way they did it was so, so blatant, you know?

LB: Yeah.

NK: I said that I worked at Candida's and they just went -- and then they just left the room. And then, I was like, wow, and it just was a weird time.

LB: What kind of other kinds of circumstances in terms of relating to that kind of fear and concern -- did people feel that around the bar, too? I mean, were people sharing stories like that?

NK: It was very -- they didn't talk about it. You know, the promiscuity in the early eighties was really high and especially at Candida's because you had the cemetery across the street, so it was easy access for private liaisons. (laughter) And it was interesting because it started to shift, slowly, but it 00:08:00started to shift. And it wasn't until probably later, in the later eighties, that I actually saw friends becoming sick and admitting that they were positive. Yeah, it was a tough time.

LB: Yeah. Could you tell that they were sick? Is that what they were saying? Or they were just sort of confiding in you that that was --

NK: No, you could see they started to lose weight. Probably one of the most heart-wrenching things that happened to me one time was I was actually bartending at Jeff's City Line Pub (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) yeah, it was probably -- I would say it was definitely probably eighty-eight, maybe, when 00:09:00I was bartending there. And a friend of mine, Joe, was the bouncer there and he was just the sweetest man. And he always helped, at the end of the night, to help clean up. And we used to throw bottles in big plastic bags, heavy contractor bags, and then throw them in the dumpster. And he came in one night after a busy weekend night and his hand was bleeding. And it was a pretty deep cut. And so, I applied pressure to it with my hand, you know, not even thinking, just because it was bleeding so bad. And then, I got a rag and I wrapped it around his hand. And a few weeks later, he came in to work and he just -- he looked really sad and he's, like, "Nan, I need to talk to you." And I said, "What's wrong?" And he said, "Nan, I had a Western blot and I'm positive." And 00:10:00he goes, "You should get tested." And it was numbing because I just remember compressing the cut and not having any protection. But the way he declined was horrible and he wound up getting Karposi.

LB: Yeah.

NK: And he was in St. Luke's and he had eventually gone blind and that was just so, so sad, just to see that happen because he was such a gentle soul. He was a really nice guy.

LB: Did you get tested?

NK: No. No, and I was going to but I knew that I hadn't broken skin but -- and part of that, probably, too was fear. I thought, well, if I get it, I get it. But, yeah, it was a -- interesting time when it first came out. It was -- and we 00:11:00just lost a lot of people. And some people that got -- that wound up being positive, you didn't expect, you know? You just [thought it?] -- because you just didn't expect it. And it was all ages. It wasn't just the young guys. And once the cocktail came out, it really helped. It turned the corner for a lot of guys that were positive. What's amazing, Liz, is working in the doctor's office today, I am amazed how many people are actually HIV.

LB: Yeah.

NK: I am shocked. And equal gender, you know? It's, yeah.

LB: When it was happening back during the time of the epidemic, when you were saying that it was all different kinds of folks that were coming in and it was clear that they were positive -- and were they sick? I mean, at that time, particularly at the early time, it was really a death sentence. Would everybody sort of feel that?

NK: Pardon?

LB: Did people feel that way? I mean, you know --

NK: Just from what I remember, they kind of tried to just forge ahead and not think about it. Some dealt with it by drinking heavier (laughs) and just sinking into alcohol more. Others pulled away from the bar and going out.

LB: Yeah.

NK: And some just lived their life. Rob St. Mary, he was just -- I don't know if 00:13:00you remember him. He lived his life and he danced until the day he wasn't here anymore.

LB: Well, I interviewed Mitch Hemphill earlier today and he mentioned Rob St. Mary, too. I didn't know him. So, what was he like?

NK: Rob was -- (laughs) he was crazy. He was fun and I just remember him just loving to be in drag but just silly drag. But dancing at the Stonewall, he was always dancing. He's just really outgoing and friendly. And as the disease progressed with him, it was hard to see because they -- often, the guys that 00:14:00would or the people that got sick, they would just get really drawn, their faces, you could just -- they had this pallor about them that was -- you knew. And so, you just didn't say anything. You just respected that space.

LB: Yeah. I think after the Pulse tragedy, the Pulse massacre, a lot of people were talking about how, for a lot of us, bars were our homes and it certainly was for everybody our age because there wasn't anything else.

NK: Right.

LB: And during the beginning of the epidemic, I think some people were really not supported by their families, although I've also heard that a lot of families in the Lehigh Valley were pretty supportive. What's your take on that?

NK: Well, you know what, Liz? To be honest with you, that was -- I bartended every -- well, bartended quite a few nights. But Sunday afternoons was one of my 00:15:00days that I bartended. I can't tell you the amount of young guys that would come in and just cry to me because their parents disowned them. It was heartbreaking, you know? At a time where you had HIV and you were gay, it was such a one-two punch for people that got sick. It was just so sad. And, you know, it was a family. I wasn't out to my parents when I was that age and I remember talking to a therapist and she said, "Nan, your family, you're going to create a family at Candida's." And that's what I did. And they were family. It was so tight-knit. And when, like, in the mid eighties, there were -- we just wanted to do 00:16:00something and we -- and that's how FACT got started. And that was amazing. And it's amazing where that has come today. It's so awesome that it helps so many people.

LB: Yeah. Well, tell me about the start of FACT there and how that happened.

NK: Well, (laughs) it started as just a crazy -- Dina had a parrot that was her mascot and the Stonewall stole the parrot. And then she --

LB: It wasn't a real parrot.

NK: No, it wasn't a real parrot, even though she had a real parrot. (laughter) No, it was just her mascot. And so, they stole the parrot and then we tried to steal the moose head from the Stonewall. (laughter) And it was really massive. 00:17:00But we wound up having these bar wars that were hysterical. And that camaraderie between Candida's and the Stonewall just created such a bond and that's where that -- it just created this force behind wanting to help people that were infected. And it just, you know, all the right people were in the right places. And they had the right connections to get everything financially solvent. And then, the games started at Rainbow Mountain.

LB: Right.

NK: And it was just amazing, you know? And every year, there just seemed to be more and more. And then, you had the Snow Ball. And it was FACT Bingo. It was crazy stuff but it all worked and all for a great cause.

LB: And did you find people were coming in saying that they needed that kind of help?

NK: There were some people that did, yeah. Some guys did.

LB: Yeah.

NK: But it's so wonderful for today to see how it made such a difference in the lives of the Lehigh Valley.

LB: You remember -- I know that there were a lot of funerals and I don't know the history of this exactly but I know they were planting a lot of trees. You remember that?

NK: You know, I remember that vaguely, that they were planting trees. I don't remember actually going to any funerals, only because it's a painful time.

LB: Yes.

NK: And my best friend, Pete, at the time, when he was HIV, I was devastated 00:19:00because he was my best bud. And at one point in time, he got really sick. He was at Sacred Heart Hospital and I went to go visit him and I walked right past the room he was in because I didn't know it was him. He always had salt and pepper hair and was always clean shaven or he had a small beard. But his beard had grown out and it was scraggly and he was sitting in a hospital chair. And I didn't even know it was him. It looked like an old man. And I went into the room and I asked him to get back into bed and he got back into bed and I had a healing crystal. That was my crystal and I put it on his heart. And I know when I left there, it was raining that day and I got to my car and I just sobbed. But 00:20:00he's still here and he's [super?]. (laughs) Yeah.

LB: So, was it that he -- there were drugs or he got better enough to be able to hold out for the drugs?

NK: He did. He did get better and he got on the right cocktail. I used to marvel at, you know, because he literally would take a handful of medication, in the morning and in the afternoon, I think, in the evening. I mean, handful. But he just, it's just amazing, even today, you know? He's doing great. And he came back for his horse. He loves his horse. And I'm glad that he survived that and, yeah, so -- but it's amazing.

LB: Now, are you a nurse (inaudible) nurse?

NK: Actually, I'm a medical assistant. I was two semesters away from being an RN back in eighty-nine, ninety, nineteen-ninety, and I was forced out of nursing school because I was gay.

LB: What happened?

NK: St. Luke's was not known (laughs) for their inclusivity of gay people, especially back then. And I had gone to nursing school. I was elected class president. I was going to graduate in nineteen-ninety. And two semesters before I was to graduate, I start flunking and I went to the instructors and I said, "Why -- I don't understand why I'm flunking my tests," because we had study groups. And I said, "Can I see the master key?" And they were, like, "No, we don't do that." And I'm, like, "Okay." And so, I was basically forced out of 00:22:00school. And there was an instructor there that actually had a crush on a friend of mine who was male and -- because I went back to school when I was twenty-nine. I was older. And so, I had become friends with this nursing instructor. Unbeknownst to me, she thought she could change my friend. So, we had gone out to dinner and at the time, I had just broken up with a partner that I was with. And I told her.

LB: Oh.

NK: And thinking that it was okay. (laughs) And it wasn't. And a few weeks later, she threatened me. She called me into her office and threatened to flunk me and that -- she just said a lot of things and I just left the office so defeated. But I wound up, unfortunately, having to leave the school because I didn't meet the grades. I got a job at Lehigh Valley, in ICU. They were great. 00:23:00They actually let me be involved with things in intensive care and were, like, "Nan, get your RN." And so, I was going to go to community college, NCACC, but I didn't want to start from the beginning. So, I wrote St. Luke's a letter to ask for transcripts of my grades to be released and NCACC said that St. Luke's had said they never heard of me.

LB: Oh, my God.

NK: And, like, at the time my parents were really upset. They thought I just quit school. And I just couldn't come out to them. At the time, I was afraid. I just felt so beaten [on?]. And it was really weird. Back in 2002, I had gone to massage school and I became a massage therapist. And one of the girls there at the school actually worked for St. Luke's and had gone through St. Luke's School of Nursing. And she said to me, she said -- I told her about what happened to me 00:24:00and she goes, "Oh, yeah." She said, "You know, Nan," because she was bisexual, said, "They threatened me." And I'm, like, "You're kidding!" And she's, "No." She goes, "Matter of fact, I said go ahead and try. I'll get my lawyer on you." And she said, "And they backed off."

LB: [Oh?]!

NK: And I'm, like, "[No?], I wish I had that kind of chutzpah," you know? (laughter) But so that's why -- not a nurse today. But I --

LB: Well, [you're a?] professional.

NK: Yeah.

LB: I think you, at the beginning, you said you were a drug dealer and I think that might be misinterpreted.

NK: Oh, a drug -- oh, yeah. I worked for a drug wholesaler.

LB: Okay. (laughs)

NK: Yeah, I worked -- (laughter) it was a wholesale drug company that was based out of Harrisburg and we supplied all the pharmacies. So, oh my gosh, yeah, I wasn't a drug dealer. (laughter) Thanks for catching that, Liz! (laughs)

LB: So, back to the stuff that was happening, then. What kind of stuff, 00:25:00externally, was happening with regard to that? Like, were you aware of things that were happening politically, that -- you know, we have those kinds of political issues now that have to do with COVID-19. There were political issues that were happening then. Do you remember how that had an impact on you?

NK: You know, I don't remember the political aspect. I remember the drugs that were coming out. And it was really -- I found it awesome that scientists and labs were creating different kind of, like, medications that went from having these guys having to take gobs of pills to one pill or, you know, or less pills 00:26:00and how it curbed the side effects of what they were experiencing. (electronic tone) Now, it's saying that I am running low on juice.

LB: Uh-oh.

NK: Uh-oh. (laughter) I have it plugged in. I don't know why -- hmm. Plugged in. Uh-oh.

LB: Is it plugged in?

NK: Yeah, it is plugged in. I don't know why it said it's low on juice. Okay.

LB: Tell people about, I mean, you know, twenty years from now -- it's bad enough now because people don't know what it was like at the beginning. A lot of young people certainly know and when we talk about young people, we don't talk -- but they're not that young. (laughter) But they don't know what it was like in terms of side effects and stuff like that. Talk about some of that thing that would happen in regard to the side effects from the drugs and also the symptoms 00:27:00of the disease that show -- you already mentioned some of those.

NK: Yeah. One of the things that I remember, Pete had a hard time eating because it destroyed your appetite, the pills. And because he would get high. And I'm, like, "Why are you getting high?" He goes, "because this is the only thing that lets me eat."

LB: Right.

NK: And so, that was a big thing. That was a big side effect. And I think, too, I think that's probably why people that were positive wound up dropping so much weight, because that was a huge side effect. And skin issues.

LB: Yeah.

NK: You know? But mainly, it was just the weight loss, what was profound.

LB: Yeah.

NK: Yeah.

LB: And so, when FACT was doing stuff and began to do stuff, when did sort of 00:28:00shift from this (electronic tone) idea of, like -- uh-oh. Are you there? Oh, dear. Oh.

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