00:00:00Cynthia Rodriguez Part 1
2020-07-20
CYNTHIA RODRIGUEZ: Okay.
LIZ BRADBURY: I have this little backup recording where I've got the voice
recording too just in case the thing doesn't work or record. And I'm going to
read you this, this thing. So with this project the Bradbury-Sullivan LGBT
Community Center and Trexler Library at Muhlenberg College will collaborate on
forty years of -- oh, wait, I didn't do some stuff. I've got to pin you, I
forgot to do that, and I forgot to turn off my phone. I'll start again. Pin
video and I got the audio on. Okay. And I just want to be sure my phone is off.
(clears throat) I'm sorry.
CR: Make sure I don't get interrupted.
00:01:00(speaking Spanish) Sorry.
LB: (Spanish), right?
CR: Yeah, yeah.
LB: Okay, I'll start again. With this project, the Bradbury-Sullivan LGBT
Community Center and the Trexler Library at Muhlenberg College will collaborate
on forty years of public health experiences in the Lehigh Valley LGBT community
collecting and curating local LGBT health experiences from HIV/AIDS to COVID-19.
My name is Liz Bradbury, and I'm here with Cynthia Rodriguez to talk to her
about her experiences in the Lehigh Valley community during this time of the
COVID-19 epidemic as part of the Lehigh Valley LGBT Community Archive. We're
meeting on Zoom on July 20th,
00:02:002020. So thank you so much, Cynthia, for being
willing to speak with us today. To start, can you please state your full name
and spell it for me please?
CR: Sure. It's Cynthia, C-Y-N-T-H-I-A, Rodriguez, R-O-D-R-I-G-U-E-Z.
LB: Okay. And will you please share your birthdate?
CR: Sure, it's 04/29/71. I am forty-nine years old.
LB: Okay, and what town are you in?
CR: I'm in Allentown, Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania.
LB: Great. This is the consent portion. So do you consent to this interview today?
CR: Yes, ma'am.
LB: Okay. Do you consent to having this interview being transcribed, digitized,
and made publicly available online in searchable formats?
CR: Yes.
LB: Do you consent to the LGBT
00:03:00Archive using your interview for educational
purposes in other formats including films, articles, websites, presentations,
and other things we may not even understand now because it'll be --
CR: Yeah.
LB: -- in the future? Great. Do you understand that you'll have 30 days after
the electronic delivery of the transcript to review your interview and identify
parts you'd like to delete and or withdraw from the project? You can withdraw
the whole thing if you --?
CR: Yes.
LB: So what is your zip code?
CR: It is 18109.
LB: Okay, and you just stated your age. You said you're forty-nine.
CR: Yes.
LB: And how do you identify within the LGBT community? So you could say anything
about how you identify within the community.
CR: I would identify myself as a soft butch lesbian.
LB: Okay. And here are some things to talk about, and we can talk about all
sorts of different -- and would you say that you're
00:04:00 cisgender?
CR: Yes.
LB: Okay. These are just general things. You can talk about anything you want,
but just to check in, let's start with some basic questions and ask who's in
your house with you?
CR: My mom --
LB: So you're --
CR: -- my mum.
LB: Okay, so that's cool. You're both there all the time? Are you working?
CR: Yeah, I work part time. I've been mostly working part time since I went back
to school as a full-time student.
LB: Uh-huh. So what are you doing?
CR: I clean part time. I was working at Stonewall for -- as a security for a few
years, and that ended this year especially with everything closing.
LB: Yeah. So --
LB: And I'm a full-time student.
CR: Oh, so you're still a full-time student?
LB: Yes, I am right now. I graduated from LCCC with an associate's in general
00:05:00studies, and now I've been -- I'm in Cedar Crest College. I am an art therapy
major, and, God willing, I'll be graduating in the spring and going into their
master's program in the fall.
CR: A master's in Cedar Crest?
LB: Yes.
CR: Oh, cool.
LB: And --
CR: Yeah, I'm planning to do it all the way. I'm going to get -- go for my
doctorate after that, hopefully at Drexel in art therapy.
LB: Uh-huh. So your master's will be in art therapy too?
CR: Yeah, I'm getting a bachelor's in art therapy at Cedar Crest in the spring,
then from there immediately, I'll be going into their master's program for art
therapy in the fall, so I can get my license to practice. And I plan on
continuing my education for art therapy hopefully at Drexel because there are
very few places in the northeast that do that, that offer that program for art
therapists, so yeah. So my ultimate goal is to have my own practice
00:06:00 and
hopefully come back to Cedar Crest as a professor.
LB: Oh, cool, that'd be neat. Yeah. So what's it like being a student? And now,
you're doing everything online, I would assume. Are you taking classes in the summer?
CR: I did not have to take any classes this summer because originally, I was
supposed to get surgery on my left foot, which did not happen because of COVID
because they had cut out elective surgeries when the pandemic started. And by
the time they allowed it, it was too late for me to do that since class is
starting soon, and there's a long recovery time for the type of surgery I'm
getting. It's about a few months of recovery time at least because it's the
Achilles tendon.
LB: Oh, God, yeah.
CR: Yeah, I had it done on my right foot when I had a bone here -- a bone spur
removed.
00:07:00I was laid up all summer. That was five years ago, and they said that I
would eventually have to get it on my left foot, which that would have been this
year because I can only do that during the summer because of school. So since
that didn't happen, it's been postponed till next summer after graduation.
LB: Do you think that Cedar Crest will open for students, or is it all going to
be online?
CR: So far, what we've heard, but of course, things can change because they've
been changing so quickly like all the time depending on how it's going with the
pandemic. As of right now, we are supposed to get what they're calling a hybrid
now experience in the fall, which honestly, I'm used to it anyway because I
usually pick at least one online class per semester, so that's a normal thing
for me. However, if things change, students may have to switch
00:08:00some classes
because it's some things -- I don't know how they're going to navigate that as
far as classes that we really need to do live, hands-on especially being like an
art/psych major, which is basically what an art therapy major is. I can see
maybe one, possibly two classes that I can do online. The rest, I don't know
because it's -- I'm supposed to take printing, print shop this fall, so I don't
know how that's going to work. With the ceramics class, our professor got
creative thankfully. He basically sent us home with a bunch of clay and told us
to make stuff, and (laughs) he was much more lenient. He was like, "You can be
abstract." I'm thinking of course, you know, and we would like video and all
kinds of stuff. They do the best they can. We did that for art therapy and --
but
00:09:00for... We'll see. And then for music, I minor in music, it depends on the
instructors, which are basically like independent contractors there anyway, that
you meet one-on-one. I take an instrument every semester. I have learned guitar,
piano there, and this semester, I'm supposed to do drums. I don't know how
that's going to work. I did plan on getting my own set anyway, so I don't know.
We have to get creative. Maybe they can teach me while I have my drum set in
front of the laptop. I have no idea. It's going to be a lot of fun trying to
figure it out. Everyone jokes that I'm trying to become my -- a one -- because I
sing too, my own one-woman band, so... I love music, and I love having that
opportunity at Cedar Crest to learn all these instruments. After this semester
for my last undergrad semester, I was planning to learn sax. So if I'm
00:10:00 done
there, I'll have like four instruments at least under my belt, but -- so things
like that Depending on how they figure that out, I may have to switch classes
last minute. Honestly, I'm really trying to stay flexible mentally to be ready
for anything and just go with the flow. Because these days, I feel if you don't
have that mentality, you can just really go nuts. And I know that that may not
vibe with the people that are not too good with change and are so accustomed to
like a set schedule and so structured. But you really can't be like that these
days. You know, this pandemic I realized, well, you kind of have to go with the
flow or you're going to really stress yourself out.
LB: Yeah. Do you have a saxophone?
CR: No, but I would totally be getting one (laughs) if it all works out well for
the spring. Amazon is your best
00:11:00friend during quarantine.
LB: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) in a way, yeah. I was going to say I have
a C saxophone, which is a --
CR: Nice.
LB: -- which I will be happy to give you for as long as you want.
CR: No way, wow.
LB: I haven't used it in a long time. I was studying clarinet, and one of the
things I found -- and I don't want to be discouraging you -- but if you've never
played the saxophone or clarinet before, it's hard to learn it as an adult. Like
piano and guitar is pretty -- and -- but like Trish and I, she wanted to learn
violin and I wanted to learn clarinet actually, they just -- it's very hard to
learn those as adults. You can pick up piano great but -- [boy?]. But anyway, so
I have a C saxophone with a mouthpiece and everything.
CR: Oh, great.
LB: That's a marching band saxophone. So it's not really the jazz kind, but it's
like a regular saxophone. And so if you want to have
00:12:00that, I will lend that to
you probably forever because I can't imagine --
CR: (laughs)
LB: -- as I --
CR: Permanently borrow your saxophone?
LB: You could permanently borrow. I can't imagine me needing this and if --
CR: Thank you.
LB: -- and I said to Trish, "I wish I knew somebody that needed to borrow the
saxophone, I would be happy to --"
CR: That would be great, thank you, thank you so much.
LB: Get to that point, feel free, and I will lend you.
CR: Great.
LB: I haven't used it in a long time. I had it refurbished right before when I
was using it, but that was a long time ago, so I don't know --
CR: Oh, wow.
LB: -- if it works.
CR: Yeah, it's been great. They really give you opportunities there to even
perform at the school. We had, prior to all this going down, like a student
showcase every month that we would perform, show what we learned, so I was
already performing with my guitar. The theater club held this big show at the
end of the
00:13:00semester in our big main theater. To be onstage with the whole
school, I mean it was great. It was great. I felt like a rock star because I
have an electric guitar as well, and I was doing that. They're fantastic. I mean
we had a lot of... That's going to be the kind of -- like one of the tougher
things going back, not really being able to fully enjoy like some of the
activities that we had. Like, we have a great theater department. I was heavily
involved with that. I was part of their stage crew backstage like painting,
building sets. And the biggest thing that I'm warned honestly like with the
creative things there was they were going to do this play this past semester
called Silent Sky, which I was really excited about. The head of the theater
department took me out to lunch last summer when I came back from studying
abroad in Spain,
00:14:00and she gave me the script to read and offered me a solo art
exhibit in the lobby of the theater to go with this play, like a whole
woman-centered kind of exhibit to go with the play. Because the play if you're
not familiar with it, it's like that one movie Hidden Figures about the female
astronomers or NASA, working in that?. Yeah, it was similar to that. I think it
was a true story too. So we had this whole thing. They had just printed -- they
had just printed the posters for me for my exhibit right before the school shut
down --
LB: No.
CR: -- in mid-March. Oh, it was... That would have been a huge break. I was
already in the middle of working on these four major, big, installation
mixed-media pieces I had set. I got the approval of like the cabinet, the
00:15:00school, the president who -- oh, actually she's -- we're -- really we're real
tight over there at the college, Elizabeth. I had her on my radio show that I
had there, and she was like, "Oh, I'd love to have you back here as a
professor." She's really cool, Elizabeth Meade. But, yeah, I was really excited.
I went through this whole approval process. I even had my own art assistant and
I was doing all this stuff working with the theater department excited about
having the show and a reception and the whole thing and then, boom, then that
happens, so we closed.
LB: Yeah, that's tough.
CR: Yes.
LB: So have you been pretty much staying in, or what have you been doing?
CR: Well, definitely like everybody else during quarantine, we stayed put
00:16:00 here.
We don't really take any chances. I'm very protective of my mom. Even after
green light or not, I don't care about all that. Because I feel green light does
not mean the pandemic is over, which I think people have been confusing the two.
Yeah, she's been like grounded for months now. But she goes out like when --
with another immediate family member. I mean, we basically have a hazmat thing
on her because we don't want to take any chances. I have an elderly parent, and
we're both actually immune compromised. I have diabetes, so I have to watch. It
was -- [unless changed?] that it's probably not one of the best things to have
during this pandemic right now,
00:17:00diabetes. So I've been really, really careful,
very minimal contact to no contact with anybody. And honestly, Liz, it's not
even more for me. I will probably survive for the most part, but I don't think
she would, so I can't -- I don't take any chances with that.
LB: Yeah, (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) --
CR: We keep it very minimal. I don't go to many places other than my part-time
job. I clean a doctor's office a couple of times a week, so I was considered
essential, so I never stopped working for this cleaning service. I was thankful
for that, you know, so... I haven't stopped working throughout the whole time.
But fortunately, I get to work by myself, so I didn't have to worry about being
around anyone.
LB: Yeah, have you gotten additional money from the government or as you --?
CR: Oh, yeah, yeah,
00:18:00yeah.That's helped a little bit and the fact that we don't
have a mortgage anymore because we've had this house forever. All those little
things helped a lot.
LB: Yeah, that makes a big difference.
CR: Oh yeah, a big, big difference.
LB: It's (inaudible) how that changes. So have you been communicating with a lot
of people on media like this or by phone or texting or -- more than you would
normally do compared to...? I would guess that you're very involved with MCC,
wouldn't you say that?
CR: Oh, yeah, yeah. But I've kept very, very busy. We've known each other for a
while. You know I keep very busy with a lot of activities and I stay... From the
beginning of this pandemic, I made a decision to keep some kind of structure in
my life like a schedule because it's so easy to fall into this rut. I would
00:19:00 joke
about it nonstop when it first started. I was posting on Facebook, but I will be
like, "There is no excuse to not wear pants people," you know, like yeah...
(laughter) And I've had to push myself, but I would -- especially with school
and being online, just it can be like -- you can get lazy. I would make an
effort to just keep the routine. I would get up every day, take a shower, brush
my teeth, put on real clothes. I didn't want to roam around in pajamas all day.
That was a huge, huge thing for me because I know how it's so easy to fall into.
It's so easy, so I really made an effort. Even if I was going to stay in the
house all day, it didn't matter. We have a yard and stuff. Fortunately, we get
to like go outside ad not be cooped up all day.
But almost from the beginning, I started going to the park more. I go almost
every day to our local park just to -- even if it's just to get some air and
sunshine. I wasn't
00:20:00going to be cooped up for just -- yeah. I thought that was
really important. With the activities, well, school kept me till the end --
almost the end of May, I want to say -- no, like mid-May. That kept me pretty
busy because I had six classes, so that's enough to keep you busy for a while.
Other than that, after that ended, I realized I had to -- other than working a
little bit, I had to do more things, so... During this whole thing, I joined the
Red Cross, and I've been in training for one of their jobs, a caseworker but --
that you could do online. That was like a safe job. But now, I want to expand to
like in-person stuff, possibly transport blood and things like that from blood
drives and things like that. There's like a million jobs they had there,
00:21:00volunteer work that you can do for them. As of right now, what I've been doing
lately for them -- to help clients that seek help from the Red Cross. I'm one of
their Spanish interpreters now, so that's been -- you know, that's just on the
phone or, yes, that can be via Zoom or whatever, but there are plenty of
meetings, opportunities.
They provide free training on a lot of stuff when you're a volunteer, first aid,
CPR, etc., which I'm certified in all that anyway because of prior jobs but...
So I did that to occupy my time, and I just felt like I wanted to give back and
help the community a little bit in the pandemic. Because you can just get in
your head a lot and just feel sorry for yourself about it, and I'm not about
that. It was like I just want to get out of my head, help other people, and just
be proactive about it, you know? Like, you can be proactive during a crisis like
this just like anything else and just do your
00:22:00part. So other than that, I took
up learning American Sign Language. I've been taking an ESL course because I
love learning different languages, and I've always wanted to learn sign
language. So I'm working on becoming trilingual, and I want to practice with
other people via Zoom that speak as well. With one, I've been doing that with a
friend of mine. So I'm doing that, and, yeah, just I, like, over cope. I do a
lot of stuff and play my guitars, keyboard, and writing, doing art. It's a ton
of stuff.
And I feel like the other thing that I've heard a lot from the beginning of the
pandemic that I've never -- I never had to deal with even during the crisis, oh,
I'm bored, I'm bored.
00:23:00Boredom seemed to be like a huge issue with people when it
first started and I guess even now, but I'm never bored. That's not even part of
my vocabulary. (laughs) Like before crisis, after, during, whatever, I still
feel like I don't even have enough time in the day usually to do everything that
I want to do because I feel like it's really what you make of it. And I can be
indoors forever, and I'll never find -- like I'll never not find something to
do. I always write a to-do list every day, I've never stopped, I've been doing
that for years. I'm also in recovery. So I was a sponsor, and I do step work in
Al-Anon for friends and families of alcoholics. I'm not one myself, but you
basically follow the same program. So that's kept me
00:24:00busy too as of last about a
year or so I've been in it. And so I do that and I'm now the chair the -- the
new chair of the meeting every Friday night. So I work on that. My relationship
ended that I had almost a year and a half. She was an alcoholic, so I got into
Al-Anon to kind of be a support or whatever, but unfortunately, that ended
during the beginning of the pandemic. And so that was probably the hardest part
for me was dealing with a double whammy, oh, pandemic and a breakup, yay, things
are great, so... (laughs) But I have a big support system, family, friends,
people from church, and just everybody, so I made it through. The professors
were great. Everyone was very patient and understanding about, like, everything.
So I got through that. I decided to stay in the program for myself
00:25:00because it's
still good. So everybody could use that probably. So I do that.
So, as far as communicating with people, I've never stopped. It's been like
business as usual just like via the internet, and it's been fantastic, and I had
no problems with it. I'm practically in Zoom meetings Monday through Friday with
all different people with -- I talk to my advisor, the therapist. And I have a
behavior specialist for adult ADHD that I was diagnosed, which would explain all
my activity probably a lot, and I'm on medication for that Adderall, so I have a
shrink I talk to once a month about that. And, yeah, my sponsor, advisor from
school. So I'm basically in the meeting, and plus, I do Zoom things, like I
said, with sign language.
00:26:00I do guitar jams with a friend from Georgia who was my
roommate in Spain. So I keep super busy like... But that's Monday through
Friday, Zooming all week, and I've been involved with a big online lesbian
community, lesbians around the country, Canada, and Europe that I talk to
regularly almost every day with this chat forum, and we meet via Zoom. So I keep
really, really busy with all that stuff. I just have to close this door just
real quick so --
LB: Okay.
CR: -- just to minimize noise a little bit.
(pause)
CR:
00:27:00Sorry about that.
LB: No problem.
CR: I'm just like rattling, but it's been really --
LB: Well, let me --
CR: Huh?
LB: Let me ask you something. Do you know anybody that's had the -- have -- has
had the coronavirus or anybody that like [who got that?]?
CR: Actually, yes, especially in the beginning because I think a lot of people
did not... They weren't taking it seriously, I don't think, you know? And so I
think people were a lot more careless in the beginning because they just didn't
know before everyone's wearing masks and I don't think... You know, the weird
thing is -- well, not like funny, funny, but when this all started months --
maybe by the beginning of March, I already definitely could tell that it was
going to be bad. I knew like for some -- like I knew it was going to get to this
point, and people thought I was being paranoid including my ex-girlfriend and
her mom. It's funny
00:28:00like as this was all approaching and I just saw the signs,
and I remember talking to them about it. Like, I was, "This is going to be --
this is really going to be bad. This is going to big. I think everything is
about to change really soon," and they were like, "Oh, no, no, don't worry. This
is just going to pass by like Y2K." (laughs)
LB: Oh.
CR: I was like, "Y2K? I don't think so." (laughter) I'm like, "I don't think so.
I think this is really going to hit everybody like they're not expecting it."
Because I was watching Europe and everything, and I knew it was going to be bad.
I knew something big was coming, and I had a friend from school who was kind of
stuck in Italy for a minute. Because the way -- I went to Spain last spring, it
was her turn this summer, and she was in Rome, and I felt so bad for her. I had
a bad
00:29:00feeling that it was going to be very short-lived, and she had been
planning for this for a year and so excited, and then halfway through the trip,
they sent her home. They cut off all study abroad programs, and I'm like, "Wow,
I had a good time last spring." I was there three and a half months. That was
fantastic. She had to come home because that was just when Italy was closing
basically, and if she wouldn't have left when she did, she would have totally
been stuck over there, you know, so... I remember already by mid-March, I had
started getting masks and all kinds of stuff.
And I remember getting -- giving my ex and her mom supplies just before all this
started, and they thought I was just being paranoid, which I kind of am
naturally anyway, but
00:30:00it was really coming in handy, you know? I remember
bringing them -- towards the end, I brought this box. I'm like, "I'm calling it
-- this the anti-OVID box." I brought them a bunch of -- this was, yeah, like
before mid-March -- a bunch of latex gloves, masks, sanitizer before they all
started going off the shelf, and I remember they laughed at me. They were like,
"Oh, no, this is --" I'm like, "Hold on to this. Trust me, you're going to need
it," you know?
LB: Yes.
CR: And what happens? I was thinking to myself afterwards; I'm like, I'm sure
they're sitting around thinking, yeah, she called it.
LB: Yeah, she called it.
CR: (laughs) Yeah, so...
LB: So you know people who've had it or...?
CR: Oh, yeah, I was going to tell you --
LB: Yeah.
CR: Hold on one second.
00:31:00 (pause)
CR: Sorry about that. It was really scary in the beginning. Probably, oh, gosh,
almost a month, going -- so it started in mid-March, it all got shut down. Maybe
almost for a month, one person after another who I knew what was starting to get
it, some really, really close friends. And I think it was just coupled with the
breakup and trying to finish school online, everything was so chaotic. Now, of
course, they're going to be totally ready and prepared all summer, but it was so
sudden and everyone -- and they just had to adapt, we all had to adapt right
away in such a short period of
00:32:00time. The professors were going nuts like, "How
are we going to do this?" It was just all so new in the beginning, and just with
everything else, the life stuff, it was crazy. I had a slight breakdown at
first, like emotionally between that and friends getting sick and then I was
getting worried about getting sick and my mom, so really buckling down, and
we're not going anywhere. It was a really kind of a state of panic almost in the
beginning. And I had some really close friends from other states getting it. My
one friend, she's still recovering, she lives in -- originally from Alabama, one
of my best friends, and she is in Kansas. She's a professor of biology there.
I'm pretty sure she got it at her school. She got very sick from corona, and she
was already immune compromised.
00:33:00Now, she's still dealing with the after effects,
like the stuff that it dealt. She no longer has corona that I know of, but it
did some damage with the other stuff that she has, so she's still dealing with
that. Last time, she was at the Mayo Clinic.
LB: Oh, my.
CR: And my friend from Georgia that I mentioned before, my guitar buddy who I
met in Barcelona, Spain, with -- we've kept in touch forever, like in touch
since then with each other. She got it twice, and she's young, a young, heathy
girl in her twenties. I feel like people are really... They have this illusion
that, oh yeah, well, I'm not immune compromised, so I'm not... No, no, no, this
is hitting and killing some healthy, young people out there. There's a
sixteen-year-old I
00:34:00know from -- that my sister-in-law knows that -- a local
person that died from it, a teenager. A friend of mine from church had several
family members die from it. My brother had some friends in New York City that he
grew up with and already knew for a long time that died from it. It just seemed
like at least several times a week, we heard that somebody passed away. So when
people got sick, we got really scared. I have one cousin -- and unfortunately, a
lot of them are usually people that work a lot with the public. One cousin of
mine, we were worried about her going back to work again. She works in a nursing
home, and she got it pretty bad. And she had to stay home for a while. Luckily
-- I don't know how she didn't get
00:35:00the rest of her family sick, but somehow, she
didn't. She was isolated pretty well. So from all these people who are sick,
their whole -- I would hear about their whole... It's not just when you're sick
like at home with loved ones. You're not just under quarantine, but you're like
under quarantine under quarantine because it's like you have to literally
isolate yourself in your little bedroom with your cat or whatever, which now
dogs and cats are getting it too apparently, you know? But --
LB: Yeah, but it doesn't make them sick, and they can't give it to anyone else,
so it's kind of a weird thing. Like they're carriers --
CR: It is weird.
LB: -- you know? I don't think --
CR: And like --
LB: -- not really a danger I think to humans --
CR: It's --
LB: -- or to the pets, kind of an odd --
CR: Hopefully not. I mean it's like you hear... I feel like we still don't even
know enough about it --
LB: But that is better --
CR: -- to know everything and then I heard that there's more than one strain. I
mean you never know
00:36:00like... And it hits everyone differently, different -- it's
just so crazy. I feel like it's just too new for us to really nail anything
down, to really know about it. So with all that, that's all I need. I just
protect myself across the board. I don't care what's like -- unless they really
learn about it, figure it out, get a vaccine, whatever, I feel we're going to
take these precautions the rest of the year until next year. (sighs) Because I'm
supposed to graduate in the spring; I'm really hoping. I don't see that
happening honestly, but I'm really hoping things go back to normal. I've waited
so long, like over (laughs) 20 years to go back to school, to be able to walk
that stage again with a four-year degree, and do the whole thing, cap and gown,
etc., like the whole... I'm really, really, really excited about doing that like
I did at
00:37:00LCCC. And I really want my mom to be able to be there, so... Like in my
family, we're doing everything we can to keep her safe and healthy.
LB: So that's your biggest concern is to keep your family healthy and safe?
CR: Oh, yeah. That's been my number one priority. I feel like when a pandemic
like this happens, which is like what, around your ears, it really makes you...
I feel that the whole quarantine time -- at least for me and I hope a lot of
people took this opportunity to do that. Maybe it's because -- (coughs) excuse
me -- in recovery or I've always been really spiritual because of my church or
whatever it maybe. I took a lot of time to reflect about things, about life, you know?
LB: Mm-hmm.
CR: That's when you really realize what's important. And I think not being able
to go out and
00:38:00about and be so distracted as we usually are, and be stuck with
family or whatever, like more time than you're usually used to, to get to know
each other and to really just reflect on what's most important. This is a really
big, rude awakening, kind of harsh reminder especially for those people that
have lost people. There have been like entire families almost wiped out in this
stuff, and it's really heartbreaking and sad. And I think with the time off from
not being in school or at work or whatever it's been for people -- I feel like
that definitely was an opportunity for people to change a lot of things. And
speaking of that, the other thing that I got involved with unfortunately, not
that I was trying to do that now during
00:39:00COVID, I've been part of the Black Lives
Matter movement the whole time it's been around, for seven years now, I think, ish.
And since like Trayvon Martin times, been involved with that, been using
actually the same signs that I made a long time ago at my old studio, and I
wasn't going to do that. I wasn't going to jump in to any rallies or anything
any time soon. Under normal circumstances, I would have been to everything. I've
been doing that for a long time, but it's -- but it was, of course, like a real
concern and... But like my mask and I never take that off outside, and I really
stayed. Like, I kept my distance from people. People got too close, I mean I got
paranoid. I'm like, "Back up, like immunocompromised" you know like --?
LB: Yeah.
CR: So I've been really super careful about that. But I've been to a
00:40:00couple of
rallies: one for George Floyd and the one from -- for Allentown that happened
recently. So I've been involved -- pretty involved with that and a whole bunch
of people in both rallies and just involved with a lot of the local
organizations. I've been a member of Make the Road PA fo some years now.
LB: (inaudible)
CR: I did some stuff for them. So still doing my activist thing with all that.
Unfortunately, that was something that was completely for me -- this shouldn't
be unexpected I guess, but that was an unexpected thing to deal with I felt like
in the middle of all this going on, but I don't know. I guess everything happens
for a reason, and there has been some change happening, which is good, more than
I've seen the whole time I've been part of that movement. I
00:41:00think like any other
-- like everything else, I feel like some things have gotten a little out of
control. I feel like some real good, legitimate change whether it's doing any
kind of reform [and things?], it's great. But when it goes to the -- starts
going to the direction like, "We're going to take out the seventh episode of The
Office" and stuff like that, it's like come on. That's not like -- you know
that's not what it's about. Yeah.
LB: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.. What do you think about...? And then one of the
things we have here in the state of Pennsylvania is that we get to see Dr.
Rachel Levine on the news, and she's the secretary of health. Have you had a
chance to see her? She's transgender, and she is speaking about -- I mean, we
really have pretty good leadership in the state of Pennsylvania. Has that
affected you, or have you had a chance to see that?
CR: Yeah, I've seen her. Yeah, she seems pretty cool I
00:42:00think. I think she's been
harassed a little bit especially during -- with now... I think she's been doing
a good job, and this is kind of dumb, like just focusing on the fact that she's
a trans woman. Like big deal, you know what I mean? As long as she's doing her
job, I don't care what she is, you know what I mean? It's like... That I don't
get. I don't think it has anything to do with somebody's job performance --
LB: [Work?].
CR: I think a lot of people just use that as an excuse for their hate speech or
whatever they need to do but -- yeah. So I don't have any problems with that.
Honestly -- I'm going to plug in my laptop soon before it dies. Hold on.
LB: Okay.
CR: I'm in the living room trying to get
00:43:00(inaudible). All right. I know like our
governor, Wolf, right?
LB: Yes.
CR: Yeah. He's been under some fire with the way he dealt -- honestly, I like
him. I like the way he's dealt with it. I was all okay with the whole shut down
and everything. Sure, and probably because it was easier for me; I was already
an essential worker and going to school or whatever. But to me lives come first.
I'm sorry, but it's like we can deal with all that later. If we don't take care
of this, it's not going to matter. Nobody is going to be around for it, then we
won't have to worry about anything. But I totally agree with the way he did it.
There's a reason why we're one of the states that had the lowest like the COVID,
what, the report of how many cases we have and
00:44:00all that. They said we dealt with
it pretty good. I know we're spiking a little bit now, but it's not like Florida
or the way New York City was. It could have been way worse, and I think because
he did what he did that it's not like Florida.
I know it's inconvenient and this and that, but you do what you have to do. I
mean this is... How often do we deal with this? I really wish we had done that
longer honestly. I wish we'd have done... I'm just being honest about that. I
feel like we opened too soon. I think we went the whole business as usual too
soon, and now, we're seeing a spike. It's totally going to affect the -- all
school for everybody across the board and for the whole country. I feel
00:45:00 like
this is dragging out probably way more than it should. And to tell you the
truth, Liz, I knew it was going to be like this. I knew back in like March when
everybody thought I was being paranoid, I knew that it was coming, it was going
to be bad, and that it was going to drag on because that's how we are in this
country. Like Americans, we are so stubborn and so just dumb when it comes to
this kind of stuff and --
LB: You think that that's like your most frustrating thing? That it's really
frustrating that you go out and people aren't wearing masks or like that and --?
CR: Yeah. I knew they were going to turn it into some kind of rights thing.
Like, these people had come out and -- oh, it's disgusting and comparing it to
-- it's making it like a civil rights issue. It's like, "What are you doing?"
and, "Oh, like we have a right," or like a
00:46:00sign that I saw, My Body, My Choice.
Like, no, you don't get to steal like the prochoice movement's stuff for your
stupid, like I don't want to wear a mask campaign. I feel like this has really
brought out -- this pandemic, a lot of people's true colors, like a lot of
people's true color. Like you can see. And I think it's really sad. I feel
like... You can just see the people are just out there just for themselves.
Like, they're just showing that they just have no concern or care about anybody
else but themselves, you know?
LB: Mm-hmm.
CR: And it's just so selfish what's going on right now. Like when people get
sick and they're like, "Oh, that's my problem," whatever. I'm like, "No, any
time anybody's sick now anymore, it's everybody's problem. That's the whole
00:47:00point." I mean you have to be careful. You have to like think about other
people. You just can't go out there hacking away or whatever and thinking that
people aren't going to think you're sick with COVID. Everything has changed. I
feel like a lot of people don't want to accept the new normal. Like it sucks,
it's not ideal, nobody wants to live like this right now, but unfortunately,
it's reality, and the more we realize that, I feel like the quicker we'll get
this over with. But I feel like they're just unnecessarily prolonging it being
stubborn and going out with signs like, "Let me play golf, let me go get my
haircut." (laughs) It's just so ridiculous.
LB: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) really, really being cut back. (laughs) I
mean just play golf if you
00:48:00wear a mask because now like I want to be able to
play golf and not wear a mask, you know? We're like, "Just for [heaven sakes?],"
you know?
CR: Yeah, yeah. It's like, whoa, I'm so glad you have your priorities straight,
you know? (laughter)
LB: No kidding.
CR: I mean it's just like it's not for themselves especially for other people
you're going to be around. It's like, do you want to see your parents or
grandparents again? The more you do that, the more you have to isolate from your
loved ones because then you can't be around them. You're like literally putting
people in danger unnecessarily, and that's terrible. And I've heard left and
right, stories about, oh, like older people passing away because they were
around people they probably shouldn't have been around, and a lot of them are
their close relatives. I really feel that people don't realize they're like
00:49:00killing their own relatives by doing -- not following these precautions. We have
a responsibility to take care of the most vulnerable people in our society.
You've got to be a little considerate. That's a big concern for me for people
when kids go back to school. I think that's my biggest concern is kids coming --
basically coming back home and bringing this stuff -- even if they're not sick,
if they don't have symptoms coming home and infecting their parents,
grandparents. That's a big concern of mine. I mean kids are great, but honestly,
I'm staying away from them this entire time. (laughs) I've really avoided them
at all costs. I know that sounds terrible, but --
LB: [Like with their family?] --
CR: -- that's how I feel.
LB: I mean everybody knows that. You take your
00:50:00kid to day care, they're going to
get a cold.
CR: Oh, yeah.
LB: This is far more contagious than a cold or the flu, the regular flu. I know
a person who's a pediatrician who was asked by some of her parents of the
patients she has, "Well, can I take my kid to daycare?" She said, "Well, if you
don't mind them getting it." Here's the thing; I mean you think that the don't
get a cold, they don't get every single infection, everything from the head lice
(laughs) to infections to poison ivy, to -- well you name it, your kids are
infected if it's in day care of if it's in school. That's why -- you know?
CR: Yeah, I'm so glad I don't have to deal with that. I mean, you've got to love
them, but it's like they're literally, little germ buckets walking around right
00:51:00now, and I just can't -- I can't deal with it literally. (laughs) I avoid them
like anything right now but... I really, really feel for the parents that have
to navigate that whole thing, their life with parenthood and the pandemic. That
must be awful, especially the parents that I know, especially the single mom
parents that don't have that option. Oh, you can't take them to daycare, they
don't have school, what do you do with them? They have to go to work especially
the ones -- like my one ex that works at a -- what is it, like a nursing home
environment, that whole thing. She's the caretaker forever, and these people are
constantly worried about bringing stuff home to their kids, you know?
LB: Right.
CR: And very, very... The best people I know, I know a lot of caretakers, a lot
of therapists and everything, and they're all struggling with that. Most of the
00:52:00closest people I know are in health care, so of course, that was a big concern.
That was a big worry having so many loved ones in health care like the women's
clinic. I used to work at Allentown Women's Center for six years, all my best
friends work there. Oh, that's been like a nightmare just worrying about them,
and every time I talk to them, not being able to be close to them any time soon,
like, "You guys, really be careful," and it's --
LB: Are they open?
CR: -- and praying for them every day. Hmm?
LB: Are they open?
CR: Yeah. They've been open since the beginning. They're considered essentials,
women's health. They do abortions, but they do like GYN health care. They've
been --
LB: A lot of trans health --
CR: -- about forty years.
LB: Yeah.
CR: Yeah, now the past... It's been a few years now. They have a whole trans
health initiative. I'm proud to say
00:53:00that I got them into -- I put them on the
gay map, so to speak, in Lehigh Valley a long time ago back in... I was working
-- started in 2005 till 2011 when Jenn Boulanger was there, and I got them to
PrideFest, and I was translating a bunch of things in Spanish. I was in charge
of -- the bilingual counselor there, I was in charge of the Spanish-speaking
patients since we got them -- we started this whole LGBT initiative thing, and
so, yeah, they've grown a lot. They've grown a lot in their services, but yeah,
being at a doctor's office, like that's been really scary. All my best friends
are there, and it's already bad enough with that kind of business. It's already
a risky field to begin
00:54:00with. Like prior to the pandemic, it was -- when I was
there, it was hard because of protestors, and you get threats.
You get bomb threats, you get that kind of stuff all the time really, so they
were already in danger even before this but then the pandemic comes rolling
around, and then you have to worry about your friends getting sick. That's been
stressful. So I always check in with them all the time about that because, yeah,
I'd be devastated if anything happened to any of my girls there. Yeah, because
those are the best women I know ever, and we've been through a lot together,
so... Like I said, this really makes you think what's important and you end up
-- I don't know if you've done it, but I know especially in the beginning, you
got used to quarantine and everything, I was reconnecting with people I hadn't
talked to for a while --
LB: Yeah, absolutely.
CR: -- you know? Yeah, and you wonder like, who's
00:55:00going to survive this, who's
not going to survive this. In the long run when it's all over, like who's going
to be left? I started thinking about stuff like that.
LB: We're still in the beginning of it too.
CR: Huh?
LB: We're just at the beginning of it too. We don't even know what's going to
happen. I mean if people are looking at this video of you talking thirty years
from now, they know what happened. They may not know what the individual
experiences for people would be, but they know what's going to happen with
regard to this and how it's going to change the world, and we don't. And people
who think that this is going to be back to normal, I mean we had employees at
the center or other people that we're working with us would say, "Well, you know
in September..." Actually, somebody just asked me to do a training in September,
I said, "Well, I can't --" What I said was, "If I can absolutely guarantee that
a person at risk won't be at -- there won't be any risk for someone who has high
risk there, yes, I'll do it in person." Well, I know that's not going to
00:56:00 happen,
so there's no way that that's going to happen. Nobody can foresee that. Unless
they came out with a vaccine tomorrow that eradicated the entire thing, well,
that's going to happen, you know?
CR: Right.
LB: It's just not, so anyway. What's giving you hope? I mean, what's the best
thing that's happened out of this, or what's really giving you hope, or
generally, what gives you hope?
CR: I think the biggest thing that's kept me together like mentally,
emotionally, everything is probably I'm really grateful for my spirituality
honestly. And I did this prior to all this happening. I pray and meditate every
single day, so I'm very grateful for that. I've been attending church online,
visiting several actually in the area, the Gregory Edwards Church and
00:57:00mine. My
spirituality, I feel like, and the program recovery, it's given so much comfort
so that that's helped a lot. I feel very blessed and lucky to have that and also
my support system. I think is really important for people to have that support
system and a Zoom account (laughs) to really connect with people because it is
-- I feel bad for anyone that doesn't have that connection via... Like if they
don't have good internet or a laptop or whatever, I really feel for them because
that's like the lifeline for most people to the outside world. The support
system I have that I've made for myself from people from school, from church,
from other like mental health professionals. Honestly, I feel that we're all
going to have -- I think we're feeling the effects of it already
00:58:00especially from
quarantine, and I've talked about this with them. I think we're all going to
have some form of PTSD from this thing, you know? And I feel like everyone can
benefit from some kind of professional help when this is all over or even more
like during because it's a lot. It's a lot especially for people like me that
are... Well, I'm kind of an ambivert I guess. I can do both like still stay at
home and be introvert and extro-- but I am mostly extroverted. The quarantine,
that's probably the biggest thing like being out there and hanging out with
people and being around people and hugging, and just the whole very people
person and [there be?] --
LB: Are you using any dating apps or any queer dating apps or anything?
CR: (laughs) Yeah, Tinder is probably not the best --
LB: (overlapping dialogue; inaudible)
CR: (laughs) Yeah. Yeah, I feel like you have to be really, really careful.
Shoot, I haven't done like online dating
00:59:00app or anything for years. Fortunately
being involved, I think being involved in so many circles really improves your
chances of dating. But luckily, even after the break, I'm thinking, oh, cool, so
dating is not going to happen any time soon. But fortunately, somebody from my
recovery group -- we were friends before, we're kind of seeing each other now.
So I guess I'm like in a rebound relationship now you can say, so I got lucky
with that. And we've kind of screened each other like physically and everything.
She works by herself, a caseworker, so it's worked out. It's really worked out
that we were able to like get together and know that we're safe because we're --
we've been isolting. (laughs) So I got lucky with that. But,
01:00:00yeah, I know
that's not usually the case with most people, and I really hope that people
aren't doing that too much. And if they are, I don't really know how you could
do that safely at this point and not consider like --
LB: That's why they say --
CR: -- the people (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) -- huh?
LB: -- right now, you're your own best friend.
CR: Yeah, yeah. (laughs) Absolutely. Yeah, you have to be safe like that
especially these days.
LB: Sex during corona, you're your own best friend is the --
CR: Seriously, yeah, because it's like -- because in the end -- that's all the
things I considered. Like in the end, I'm thinking, is it really worth hooking
up with someone right now and then taking that home to your relatives?
LB: Yeah, (inaudible).
CR: Is it really worth it in the long run? I'm like, nope. So, yeah, it's tough.
If somebody wasn't partnered before this went down, this is like -- then it's
been -- I know it's been
01:01:00tough for people. I got lucky, but I know like that's
-- it is what it is though. Huh?
LB: I think people who are living alone, completely alone, it's very, very hard
for them.
CR: Sure.
LB: It's an off thing. I say that to Trish every day. I say, "We're so lucky
that we get to be here. We're also so lucky that we have a big enough house that
we don't have to be in the same room every day," you know?
CR: Right, right, right. (laughs) Definitely, oh, my gosh, and I think that was
a big thing too I heard was -- I forgot what country it was. That definitely the
corona has gone down and it's going back to normal, and divorce rates are up
because people just got so sick of each other, you know?
LB: Well --
CR: I could see that.
LB: -- a lot of people are looking at their smaller apartments, like people who
lived in New York City that were very in small -- like the lodge that I just
sleep there, are really looking at different kinds of living
01:02:00arrangements. I
don't know if I can ever -- maybe I can never imagine. What if I get stuck doing
this again? I have to move to the suburbs, or I have to have more of a communal
living situation where a group of people are living together so that they don't
have to be alone. They said that like every pet in the -- all the dogs and cats
that were in, the strays, everybody adopted them because -- in all the places
because people didn't want to not have anything to hug. And I think it was a big
deal. I think a big deal. So we're pretty much at the end of this. I wanted to
just ask you in the future, we hope that somebody -- well, I think people will
look at these.
These are very interesting artifacts because comparing this to the flu that
happened a hundred years ago, a hundred and two years ago, the flu epidemic of
1918, they didn't have social media then. On the other hand, they didn't really
know how dangerous it
01:03:00was, and that's why so many more people died. I mean fifty
million people died in that flu epidemic and for a lot of -- one of the reasons
is that people weren't sharing information. They weren't telling each other
really how they were communicating and how they had to do distance and stuff.
You weren't allowed to talk about that really. I think for a lot of us who are
concerned about other people, the biggest frustration is elected officials who
are leaders who were saying to people, "Well, so what if people die? Go ahead
and open. It's only fourteen thousand children that are going to die," that kind
of stuff. So that makes us all nuts but.. And it's ridiculous because there's no
finite number. We have no idea what this is going to do, and we also know that
there has been indication that people -- scientists have said if every single
person in the United States wore a mask for three months,
01:04:00this would be over.
CR: Mm-hmm, yeah.
LB: Right?
CR: Yeah.
LB: Literally, it would end it. It would end the thing. But people won't wear
their masks; it's crazy. But anyway, what I wanted to ask you is people would be
looking at this, so now you're talking to the future and you're going to tell
them. Tell them one -- a couple of phrases about sort of what's happening and
what you hope is going to happen and to just communicate the feeling of -- like
your feelings about how things are now and maybe some hope and what you'll hope
it's going to turn out to be and that kind of stuff. What would you say to them?
CR: Well, to kind of piggyback on what you just said, I realized that when it
first started, like everything shutting down in mid-March or whatever, in some
countries, this was already winding down in some places. I think already in
China, like it was already winding down, and it wasn't really a long time
overall when you look at it because they were really
01:05:00strict with themselves
about that. Unfortunately, I don't think that's going to happen here any time
soon. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it's not already the country where it
lasts the longest because of so many people fighting it. They wouldn't even put
up with that in other countries. They haven't as far as I know like the
protesting about wearing masks and all that. Yeah, I feel that this has really,
like I said, been an opportunity to really -- to unite and just fight this
together and just follow what we're supposed to do. But honestly, I feel that it
has divided us as well unfortunately, and I can't say that I'm surprised by
that. It's really disappointing.
01:06:00That combined with other things that we already had here that we're dealing
with. Don't even get me started on our so-called leadership of the country. I
think that's a huge, huge part. They have not set a good example in how to deal
with this crisis, and I feel that it says a lot. Like whatever the leaders are
doing, they're leading by example or they're supposed to be, people are going to
follow that. And I've literally heard, I'm sure you did too, on the news, I
literally heard people saying like on the beach, "Well, the president doesn't
wear a mask, why should I?" That says a lot, and I feel like things would have
been one hundred percent completely different if we had somebody else there who
would have spotted this a long time ago. It should have been taken care of like
the end of last year honestly. If that
01:07:00would have happened, things would have
been totally different. So I feel like we were not prepared for this at all, but
we should have seen this coming a mile away. Unfortunately, we haven't, we
didn't, and this is the result of that but I'm hoping that... And I think sadly,
it's going to take another serious wave for it to really kick in, for a lot of
people to really realize it especially the people that are still saying, I don't
know why, that it's -- I don't know where they're getting this information from,
that it's a hoax. People have been dying and getting sick. I feel like they're
the ones that need to get sick or have someone around them to really understand.
I don't wish this on anybody, but it's like, what is it going to take, you know?
LB: Right.
CR: So it's been really scary. And it's almost like you have to walk on
01:08:00eggshells and have this constant stress over you all the time. Like, am I going
to get it? Am I going to bring this home today? It's like we shouldn't have to
live like that, and it doesn't have to be like that. But hopefully, we'll get
through it, and a lot of lessons I'm hoping we'll learn to be better prepared,
hopefully to have better leadership in the figure. We do have an election -- a
big election coming up, so I hope that's reflected in the upcoming elections. If
it's not, then it's like, have we really learned anything? So I think there are
so many lessons to be learned with the pandemic on a very, very personal level,
on a level like your community. It takes a village, you know?LB: Yeah.
CR: National level,
01:09:00international level. I mean so many lessons. You need to
take this opportunity to really reflect on so many things and not act like it's
business as usual because it's not, and it's not going to be for a lng time.
LB: Yeah. You spent a lot of time in Europe or you were in Europe last year for
three and a half months, and I'm sure you have friends in other countries too
that -- have you been communicating with those people in other countries about
what that -- their experiences were, or was it mostly students that were from
here that you were around?
CR: Mostly students, but that's a good question. I did make some friends over
there mostly from the university. I was -- actually became good friends with my
professors that I ended up hanging out with early -- like we hang out with them
and fellow artists over there that I worked with. It's a shame; I haven't gotten
in touch with them. I should even if it's just via WhatsApp or whatever. That's
been a
01:10:00great source of -- for communication. Yeah, I'm going to check up on them
with that because I know Spain was in a major lockdown, major lockdown, but they
seem to have done pretty well with it as well. That's what I noticed. The ones
that had that most strict lockdown, quarantine procedures are the ones that came
out better off in the long run, you know? I really wish we could have done that
here. I knew we wouldn't be able to, I just -- I knew. There would just be too
much of a hassle, too much ruckus with all these crazy groups going out there on
the steps of city hall with -- or wherever it was with their guns and what --
it's so ridiculous. I'm just -- I can't -- you know like -- yeah. I think that's
just really dragging it out, and we'll eventually learn the
01:11:00hard way, so...
LB: Yeah. Well, this has been a great interview. I really, really appreciate you
taking your time to do this with me today, and --
CR: Thank you.
LB: -- I appreciate it very much. You do get that thirty day -- we'll try to get
the transcript. This goes to a college, a transcripts groups that they
transcribe this into writing so that you can look at it then you have some time
to look at it and stuff. I can't imagine that you would want to take anything
out. Everything you said was brilliant --
CR: Thank you.
LB: -- needless to say. And let me give my best wishes to your mom and take care
of yourself, and I really appreciate all of that. and I appreciate all the stuff
you've done over the many, many years that you've done. I think we've known each
other for at least twenty-five years.
CR: Oh gosh, yeah, yeah.
LB: So yeah, and you've always been there working on this stuff and always very,
very vocal and very... And one of the things I was thinking about because I have
the same quality as you, is artists are never bored. You always
01:12:00have something.
CR: (laughs) Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
LB: Especially since we have the internet where we can show our art on the
internet. So it's like, --
CR: Oh yeah.
LB: -- well, nobody can see the work I'm doing. You can --
CR: Yeah.
LB: You work all the time, and maybe in some way, kind of cool that you get the
time to just work and work. I've made two paintings yesterday, so I really do
understand it.
CR: Excellent, yeah.
LB: Thank you very much. I'm going to stop the recording here.
CR: Sure.
LB: Thanks --
CR: Okay, yeah, no --
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01:13:00