Dr. William F. Fritz, August 7, 2015

KATE RANIERI: Today is August 7, 2015. And we're at the home of Dr. William Fritz and we're interviewing him about his experiences in the V-12 program at Muhlenberg College. And I thank you so much for opening your home to us and allowing us to hear your story. We're very interested.

WILLIAM FRITZ: And thank you for coming all the way down there now.

KR: Oh, my pleasure. One of the things that we wanted to start with was kinda going back to before you were at Muhlenberg--you're a senior in high school. What were your aspirations then about what were you going to do once you got out of high school?

WF: Well, I had planned to be a doctor, I always wanted to be. And I hadn't planned to come to Muhlenberg because I didn't even know about Muhlenberg then. But, uh, then, in 19, in actually I think it was the beginning of our high school year, they made known that there was this program for, to continue your college education and then you would go, you know, into the service after you've completed it. And you went to, I went, living in Oshkosh, I went down to 00:01:00Milwaukee and took the tests for the Navy V-12. One thing I knew, I didn't want to join was the Army and I took the test and was notified that I had been accepted and said that I would hear where I was going sometime in June of nineteen hundred and forty-three. And, as I say, when it came, it said Muhlenberg College in Allentown, Pennsylvania, which was all completely unknown to me, both the town and the college.

And then of July, June 29th, to think, because I think it takes almost two days get out there. We departed, and, uh, arrived on the first of July, nineteen hundred and forty-three, uh, an extremely hot day. And I think, I don't know. It seems to me there were 400 or maybe 600 Navy in the V-12, and Marines. And the 00:02:00pre-medical class was quite small, I think that maybe 20, the rest were studying for line officers or other branches of the Navy. And then a lot of returning Marines and that a lot, but maybe several 100. And they were mainly older than we were, so, uh, well, that's how I got there. And then we all sat on the lawn the first day waiting for our assignment with our duffles. You were only allowed to bring small duffle with a few things in it because of course, we're going to get into uniforms.

And after I arrived, I'd been there one week, and my commanding officer, whose name was Lowenstein, sent for me. And I thought, what have I done? And I had applied before this for a Naval Academy appointment with Senator Joseph 00:03:00McCarthy, who was, lived near us. And I got the call from Lowenstein to come to his office and he said, you've just been accepted to the Naval Academy and you if you're going to accept it, you will be sent home and you'll start the Naval Academy on November first. So, I really didn't know what I wanted to do, what I should do. So, I called my father and he said, if you want to be a doctor, you'll have to stay there. And if you want to be a line officer, you know, except the Naval Academy post, which I didn't want to become a line officer. Uh, so, I regretted the appointment to the Naval Academy and stayed on at Muhlenberg.

KR: So, did you know Senator McCarthy?

WF: Well, we knew him, yeah, I mean, I didn't know him well. He lived in Appleton and he was at that time he was a rising young Republican star. And my family we're good Republicans and everybody thought he was a good man until what happened later. But, uh, he uh, was, was there were three little towns, Oshkosh, Neenah, Monash, which were in between, which were Kimberly Clark was big paper company, and Gilbert Paper Company, Marathon paper company, a lot of big paper companies in the area, and then Appleton. And they were all within, uh, 18, 20 miles of each other. I mean, there is just one line and we all shared the same club called the North Shore Club. And they were all on Lake Winnebago, which is the lake that Oshkosh is on. So, I didn't know him well, but I mean, of course, I was 17 years old and he was United States Senator. But he, at that time, was considered a rising young star in the Republican Party.

And, later on I did have a very unpleasant experience with him. But this was years later. But, uh, I was at the National Heart Institute and he, uh, at this time was running these hearings and accusing everybody of communism. And I, we would on our lunch hours, go into the --the clinical center had just been built. So, this is the National Institutes of Health, which you know the size of it now, but there was one building, it was just starting. And I had been pulled out of the Mass General Hospital during the Korean War and, uh, asked to come into the National Heart Institute, which was starting and we were moved down to Bethesda.

Anyhow, so we would go down to the solarium at lunchtime and watch on the black 00:06:00and white television these hearings. And he would just accuse everybody of being a communist. And there was a man named Reber, I think his name was, and he said, "General Reber, your brother, who was [hand wave] something in Germany, is a communist."

And General Rebar, on the black and white television face got scarlet. You could see it. And he said, "I want to take recourse to that statement." And they shot him off and said we'll recess after lunch. Anyhow, I was so annoyed that the man had not had a chance to have any response that I went to the phone and said, called the senate office building and said, "This is Dr. William Fritz and Senator McCarthy knows who I am and I'm going through Washington, they should never have told a lie. And I heard this debate or this accusation on radio and I was really disappointed in him. And I think that he is, you know, I said I thought he was being unfair and throwing all these accusations out right and left."

And this man said, "Well, you know, wait a minute, let me get you, Mr. O'Malley. He's his administrative assistance. So, Mr. O'Malley came on and he kept me talking and talking and wondered, what didn't you like? And now I'll tell him. So I said, "Well, that's all I want to say. Just tell him that I'm really annoyed with him and, you know, as a good Wisconsin person that I'm disappointed in him" and hung up and went into my little lab where I was pipetting with another friend of mine.

Suddenly the phone rang in the little laboratory, and I picked it up. The operator said there's a call for you and I said yes. And she said I'll put it through and it was, "This Mr. O'Malley. I'm just checking a few things I wanted" and I suddenly realized that they had traced my call. It kept me on the phone all that time to see whether it was legitimate. And I called home that night and said, "I got some good news and bad news. And the good news is I'm well, but the bad news, I may be on the cover of Time Magazine as a Communist." [chuckles]. I 00:07:00never heard from him anymore.

KR: [laugh] Funny. You were talking about that first day at Muhlenberg and it was hot. What was the whole experience like? I mean, do you remember people that stand out in your memory?

WF: I sat next to a young man who was older than I was. He was a Marine. And I think he had been pulled out of Yale and his name was Roy Gardner. And I was homesick, as you can imagine. I mean, everything seemed strange and just was bewildered as we all were. And, but he was such a nice guy and he became a good friend of mine for, remained one for a long time. But he said, you know, I think we'll be put in the same dormitory because F.R., G.A., they're doing it alphabetically. So, he was down the hall from me. But, uh, the Marines had their own agenda. They had, we really didn't see a lot of them except when we go into 00:08:00the dormitory at night or something. But our Navy V-12, our medical school, we were pretty much isolated from the other, mainly because our academic schedule was much harder than the others and we had to spend a lot more time in labs and trying to cram four years of college into two. So, we were in the library when we weren't in laboratories or in the classroom.

KR: Any particular faculty that stand out?

WF: Dr. Trainer and Dr. Shankweiler. I remember they were wonderful. Yeah. And then there was a man named, who's a physics teacher named Boyd. And he came to Maryland, the University of Maryland. And I remember hearing that he was over there at the medical school. But Dr. Trainer was wonderful to us and Dr. 00:09:00Shankweiler was older, but we all liked him.

And I remember Dr. Tyson very well because they were, as I say, they were very nice to me. And I can still see his signature, the big L. and Tyson with a great big "Y".

KR: What do you remember about President Tyson?

WF: I can, well, David was in the same class I was in. I mean, we didn't he wasn't in my, in my pre-med class, but, um, they were very nice to me, as I say, they took me down to the beach with him. And, uh, I remember going there for dinner and was always terrified because, not so much of him but Mrs. Tyson, who was a rather formidable character.

KR: How so?

WF: Well, I just, she, he was, he didn't say he was not very talkative, but I mean, it is very nice and good. And she was, uh, imperious is certainly not the word for her, but she was formidable. And she used to say, she'd refer to him as the President would like this or the President wanted that and with great deference to the president. But he was, he was very nice and he did a good job, I think. But, I'm sorry to hear about David.

KR: That was sad.

WF: What did he die of?

KR: I don't recall them saying what he died of. They had a beautiful obituary about him at the time that I can look it up because I have-

WF: Okay. yeah, I'd love to see it.

KR: Absolutely. When you were thinking of, when you were on campus, I know you were really busy with, uh, all your academics and all, but did you participate in any extracurricular activities that you recall?

WF: Well, I don't think we could do any. I mean, we had the track team and went out for track team, but we didn't have, every free moment we used for study. I mean, it was, uh, really, I can remember we all thought we were all going to crack [chuckle]. We'd always say that, you know, we can't keep this schedule up. And it really was, I think we've made it seem worse than it was [clock chimes], but, but it was a lot of work and we didn't have a lot of free time.

The weekends were, we got off at noon. We'd have a, a, some sort of review at 12. And then you were free to go until Sunday evening, I think around five o'clock. And I had a great friend, a couple of them from Philadelphia and I go 00:10:00home with them on the weekend. And we took something called, often if we didn't hitchhike, which everybody was so nice about picking us up and taking us to, uh--we took something called the Flying Coffin and it was a streetcar that ran-- I can't remember where we got it, but it was something like Easton maybe. But, anyhow, it went to a, uh, oh, some part of Philadelphia, can't re--Drexel, I think Drexel University was the long way. I was going to Chestnut Hill, which was on one end of time and this was the other. But, uh, then we'd get back, we'd have to be back in the evening. And that was just such a bummer to come back at night and Sunday night after a good time and then have to study and, um, back in the old saddle.

KR: Also, some people, did you spend any time in the community at all, like in Allentown, Cedar Crest or something like that.

WF: Yes, well, I didn't, didn't know any girls at Cedar Crest like that. We used to go down and swim. I think they had a pond or something. It's seems to me that was a little lake down there. And I remember on the hot days, we'd go down there. Yes, the families that there was a Barbara York and Jody Smoyer who were from Allentown, yep, Allentown. And the Young family. And the Youngs were, the Young's lived next to the Traylor Hotel up there. They had a kind of a family compound. It was several houses in there. And one of their sons, and I think it was Bill Young who was a friend. But people were very nice to us and them in these various people who we would meet serving the meals and so forth, would ask 00:11:00various ones of us to come and have a meal at their house, which was, you know, very kind.

KR: Absolutely. I think really chipped in.

WF: They did indeed. Yeah.

[TONY DALTON sidebar comment on restarting it]

WF: They had a USO downtown and was kind of a square in the center of town. And I can remember there was a building there with the when I first got there that we went down the USO and there were a lot of people working in there, you know, asking what they could do for us. It was a very, the people were very cordial and hospitable and kind. And it was like, of course there was a big influx of servicemen coming into the town for the first time, so they all did their part.

KR: Think everyone did, right?

WF: Right.

KR: So, talk to me about your, did you leave Muhlenberg and then go into med school or did you go into the Navy?

WF: No, I, uh, when I grad-left Muhlenberg, I went into, sent as a corpsman, to the Philadelphia Naval Hospital. We lived at the Philadelphia Navy Yard and the war ended then. So, I got out in June, that was '45, and the war had ended, ended shortly after.

And then in, um, let me think, well September, I got, well I got notice right away that I had been accepted at Johns Hopkins. So, what was his name? There was somebody from Allentown. Oh, no, no, no. This was, I'm sorry. This was somebody in the Navy who was from Baltimore who took me, to show me Hopkins. I'd 00:13:00never seen it, but, uh, then we were commissioned as ensigns. And so when I started Johns Hopkins Medical School in 1945, at the age of 19, uh, I was an ensign and we wore uniforms and was still accelerated the first year. And then I was, um, decommissioned at Bainbridge, Bainbridge Navel Center outside of Baltimore in late 1945, and was out of the Navy. They got rid of us.

KR: Just like that?

WF: Just like that. They were glad to get rid of us.

KR: [inaudible] So, did you, you spent no time, other than--

WF: No active duty other than the brief time in the Philadelphia Navy Yard. And 00:14:00they discontinued the, you're supposed to have, they were going to ask you serve, you know, several years after that to make up for your education, which they gave up doing. I don't know why. So we were just out.

KR: You had a job, right?

WF: Yeah, right.

KR: So, you were talking earlier about, if we can just go back to Schultz, your friend. [Laugh]. Do you mind just kind of sharing that story one more time just because I think a lot of us would love to hear, you know--

WF: when I was on duty?

KR: Yes, when you were at Muhlenberg.

WF: Yeah. Well, I mean it was just as I say. I was fresh out of high school and 17 years old and didn't know all the rules of the Navy. But anyhow, we had been studying hard all the time and staying up late trying to get our work done. And 00:15:00I'd no sooner gone to sleep, it seemed to me, then they tapped and said I was on guard duty and I had to go to this little desk in the tower for two to four. And looking at my, I took my books along and fell sound asleep. And then I suddenly felt a tap on my shoulder and woke up to look in Chief Schultz' face.

I jumped up and he said, "Fritz, Do you know the penalty for falling asleep on duty?"

Trembling, I said, "No sir?"

He said, "Death?" [laugh].

So, I really didn't think I was going to hang from the yardarm, but wasn't sure at that time. But he really probably was a very nice man and he just, he was a tough master and he was the one who devised that underwater obstacle course, which I don't think any other Navy V-12 program ever did.

We had a pretty tough program, I mean the Navy V-12 did, for swimming because I remember that they, you know, when you got there, everybody had to jump in and they had to swim the length of the pool. Well, there were so many people who couldn't do it and they had to go back and until they could do it. Then we had a tall tower and it had a cargo net up the side. And we had to climb up the cargo net and get to the top of the tower and then jump off. And they put on life, life preservers because you're supposed to simulate jumping off the side of a destroyer and of course you had to hold them down like this [motioning holding arms tight against the chest] because if you didn't, you'd snap your neck. But what would happen is we'd be climbing up the cargo net and somebody would not do it properly. And then he'd lean way back and so pull the cargo net way up. So, 00:17:00we were all lying out hori--we'd all have to fall back on the water and start over again. It's an interesting time.

KR: Absolutely. What was the food like, by the way?

WF: You know, Navy food. I wouldn't say it was bad, because, well, and we were always hungry, [inaudible] had yeah, you know, it was just a mass production. We just went down with a tray and there's that pop it on your plate and you sit. And because you had to march in and march out, you had to be in formation before marching to and from the dormitory. You didn't just wander back to the dorm.

KR: And in the dorm, weren't you, were you inspected all the time?

WF: No. But we would, well, they did have inspection and we had, um, periodically the Fourth Naval District would send somebody down and they'd come around and inspect our rooms. And I can't think, I, there is one poor, gosh, and I think he probably in retrospect, had narcolepsy, he was always asleep. He fell asleep on the john. He fell asleep everywhere. And he, he, uh, announced the commander was coming from the fourth Naval District and he wasn't in my room fortunately, but we had big blanket boxes in the closet where they stored the pillows and blankets. Anyhow, and he went in there and was asleep. And the Admiral came around inspecting all the rooms and he opened the closet and saw, said what's in that blanket box. And they said that's where we keep, where we store our blankets. And he looked in and there was this poor sailor asleep. And he got captain's mast, which was the equivalent of court martial for, you know, the out of commission. So, he disappeared. Poor guy.

KR: That's terrible. Do you have any questions, Susan? Go ahead.

SUSAN FALCIANI MALDONADO: I do. Do you remember interacting with civilian students who were not part of the V-12?

WF: There were not many there. We had civilian students in our medical, pre-med class, yeah, several of them and very nice. And I can't remember why they would, must have been 4F, you know, not, couldn't get in service. But we had maybe five or six. And that was in the pre-med class. There were other civilian students there.

SFM: Where did they live?

WF: They didn't live with us. I don't know where they lived, as a matter of fact.

[technical direction from TD to WF]

SFM: Do remember a mascot? Was there a dog?

WF: Yeah. There was a dog. Was it, what was it, yeah, bulldog? Was it, what do I remember the, Muhlenberg mule, no, was [laugh] was a mule, was it? I bet there was a dog.

KR: Gizmo?

WF: I can't remember that.

KR: He's a Chesapeake Bay Retriever, I think?

WF: I, I don't really remember that. Remember that the we had a very good football team one year that, uh, and I think it was due to Marines who got on there. But we played and of course the Penn Relays, Philadelphia, we went down to. But it was, and what else do we, [inaudible] put that back with? Football games were a big thing. Full.

KR: Basketball?

WF: I don't remember the basketball team too well, but do remember the football. And we had a baseball team which wasn't much. And we used to have we used to have to run and track. And that's what I remember Cedar Crest, because we ran down and somehow through some woods down there or something. And one of the coaches was pretty heavy and he couldn't run with us. So, he stood at the top of the hill and watched us and, you know, 40 men would trot down and go through the woods. And on the other end too, and come out and take the long circle around and then they'd come back, go in the woods and 40 would come back up. And it drove him crazy that he didn't know who was staying in the woods resting. He could he could never find out who they were. But, uh, is Cedar Crest still going?

KR: Yes, it is, absolutely. [pause]. We have a letter that you wrote to Dr. Tyson. Would you mind reading it?

WF: I can't read.

KR: You can't read at all?

[technical direction from TD to WF]

WF: But I can't read. I have to have magnifying-- [looking at letter].

KR: Special glasses?

WF: This is mine?

KR: Uh, huh.

WF: Where in the world would you have found it?

SFM: Well, it was in the archives. I have letters from a thousand men written back to the college, um, who had been participating in the program. That's what started this whole thing.

WF: OK. Would you read this? I can't.

KR: Sure.

[technical direction from TD to WF]

WF: If I can get a magnifying glass, I can read it. [long pause while reading letter]. See if I can read it.

KR: You have lovely penmanship. [pause]. So, whenever you are ready, you can go 00:22:00ahead, if you'd like to read it.

WF: OK. [reading letter] Dear Dr. Tyson,

It has been in my good fortune to be stationed at Muhlenberg College for the past two years. And I wanted to express to you how very much enjoyed my stay. It was with deep regret that I left. I entered as a pre-medical student and because of the wonderful instructions, I feel well-equipped to enter medicines, medical school in the fall.

There's one thing which in my mind will stand above all others when I think of Muhlenberg and that is how the students and professors worked together and their close contact. I am very glad indeed to consider myself as an alumnus at Muhlenberg.

Very sincerely, William Fritz. August no, June 30th, 1945. Well!

KR: Thank you.

WF: Thank you. Well, and it did, you know, I'll tell you, I was the first person enter Hopkins from Muhlenberg because now when I was in the medical school admissions committee many years ago, there were, we have many more coming now, but, uh, and I was really when I got in, I was very pleased that I had, was well-equipped, had a really good background, and was able to, you know, have no problem, lot less problems than a lot of other students who had also been at V-12 programs at other colleges.

KR: I understand that Dr. Shankweiler was pretty instrumental in helping--

WF: --loved med, medical students. He, apparently a letter from him meant a great deal, especially at Jefferson and Temple and Penn, I think. He was very highly regarded and he was wonderful and very hands-on. And Dr. Trainer I remember as being so helpful. You know, I mean, that I can't remember what, uh, 00:23:00I had a terrible time at the quantitative analysis of chemical thing, you had to burn it and weigh it and blow it off and weigh it again and then, you know, just decide what the element was and I don't know, I would always sneeze and blow it off the little weight scale or something and have to start all over. He was just so kind about helping us and encouraging us. And the whole school was, was everybody on the faculty was, was very generous in time and in trying to help, they gave nothing impersonal about the way they treated us. And they were and maybe it's because a small college, but they certainly did. And especially in the pre-med program. I mean, they really were right there with us all the way if we had trouble, you know, glad to spend the extra time to help us.

KR: Does the name Haps Benfer ring a bell?

WF: Yeah, Haps Benfer, wasn't he public relations or something? Or Haps Benfer, no, it was the athletics? I remember his name well. I can still see him--

KR: He was registrar and dean.

WF: No. Okay. Dean? Yeah. Oh, I can see a big man with glasses. Yeah, I do remember him. And, uh, can't think of any others. I mean, I'm sure there are other names that'll bring back a memory, but I can't particularly think of any right now. He, he was the dean?

KR: Yes.

WF: Okay.

KR: One of the questions that we're thinking about asking everyone that was, you have accumulated so much wisdom over the years, if there's one piece of advice that you could give students today, what would it be? I mean, anything?

WF: Well, I don't I think that when I when I was in the medical school admissions committee, the thing that I found that we, they all came in with grade point 4.0, I mean we didn't. They screened them down. So the ones that we interviewed were all 4.0 students. The thing that really separated the sheep from the goats was that what they had done extra-curricularly.

I mean, the people who had other activities and weren't simply book worms turned out to be much better doctors. We found in the past that they had to have, you know, you life had to have more facets than just studying. And so we looked very carefully at what they did outside of their curriculum and their studies. And I think that's one of the things I would say, not that I'm studying isn't important, but that, uh, you know, to have a well-rounded life makes all the 00:26:00difference in the world. And, and I, and my medical school class, I mean, the people who were the most brilliant people later on, best careers were often up the top of the class. But they were people who had, uh, were inquisitive and, you know, wanted to study why something happened. I mean, try new experiments, branch out a little bit, not just book studies.

KR: I like that advice. I can see that working especially at our school

WF: Yeah. Well, I think, you know, and I think that as long as they yeah, they have another kind of life too. I think that you don't, I mean, you find the people who are absolutely nothing but studies in their life are pretty one-dimensional people. So that the more you can do, you know, the better. Although I just, one of the things that really bothers me today is that academics has taken a backseat. I think sports are wonderful, but I just think the emphasis we're putting on sports and recruiting these kids who were freshman in high school for college because they're good lacrosse players and not worrying about what their academic skills are, is just we're putting the emphasis on the wrong syllable.

KR: Exactly.

END OF AUDIO