Dr. Richard E. Meyer, August 21, 2015

KATE RANIERI: This is August 21st, 2015 and I am interviewing Dr. Meyer. Thank you very much for allowing us into your home and letting us hear your stories. We feel like it's a quite an honor to be able to travel here to hear your stories. Um, I know your daughter is very proud of you too and all your other children. Thank you.

RICHARD MEYER: I, I am honored [chuckle] to be chosen for this interview.

KR: Thank you. So, I'd like to kind of look at this from a chronological perspective, but we don't have to follow that format. But, if we can start that way, I'd like to ask you to think back when you were in high school, if you had aspirations for being a doctor, was that something in your mind? Did you think you think about going to college, then if you kind of talk about those early years.

TONY DALTON: One thing before, we get started. Just please excuse me while I fix this. There we go.

KR: Thanks. Alright. So

JC: Thanks, and Dad you have to be careful

TD: There we go

KR: It's OK. So high school,

RM: Well, it was during World, World War II. And all of us were, all of us male students were interested in serving our country. And, uh, we heard about the V-12 program. I feel like the Navy V-12 for program was very well run as opposed to the Army program and the Air Force. They, they, they did not persevere like the Navy did to see us all the way through. But I was interested in, uh, becoming a doctor in high school. And, uh, so we found out how to apply for the program and, um, well, even physically. It was important to qualify physically, but my grades were good, [chuckle] so I did qualify. But, um, then I enlisted in 00:01:00the Navy but all along I was scheduled to go into the V-12 program and I, um, somewhere along the way, I wanted to find the orders to report to [laugh] Muhlenberg College, but I cannot find that. But I did receive a-- Muhlenberg college, well, I had never heard of Muhlenberg College [laugh], but, uh, when I got there, I was so pleased. Muhlenberg was a, it was an all-male Evangelical 00:02:00Lutheran School and, uh, we, we pretty much took over the campus when we arrived. And, uh, I I was assigned to East Hall and I registered for classes just like regular college students. And, uh, when I got my uniform right away, uh, and, uh, we became militarized in a hurry.

RM: Uh, we were, and I was, it was very important for me to study hard to be 00:03:00able to continue in the program. So, one of the jokes was after taps, the pre-med students would use a flashlight under the covers to study for the next day classes. And a so the pre-med students became separated from, well, not really separated, but we had our own little group, the pre-med students did. And but the majority of the students were either sailors and Marines. And, uh, they were destined to become deck officers in the Navy or Marine officers for the 00:04:00Marine Corps. And, uh, I was a little bit embarrassed about not going to action, but this is really what the Navy wanted me to do. They, they, they needed doctors in the Navy and this was their way to help us get to that stage. And so then, on that same subject, some of the Marines in particular would flunk out on purpose because they thought they should be fighting the war and all they were. Uh, but when I finally got my discharge, I was still an apprentice Seaman at the 00:05:00time of the discharge, which, uh, was something they, I, I don't think they knew how to classify me or the V 12 people. But, uh, I look back on everything, it was such a worthwhile experience for me. I thank the Navy for me becoming a doctor. I could not have done it without the, the U.S. Navy.

RM: And, ah, so, well, incidentally, they did catch up with me later. There was 00:06:00another program later on, we're going to call it the Navy civilian internship program where I actually became a doctor and served in the Korean War, but aboard ship and all that. But anyway, even today, I, I'm a member of the American Legion and I am proud of my service, uh, and I thank not only the US Navy, Muhlenberg College because, uh, Muhlenberg was a very good pre-med school. I didn't realize it at the time, but Dr. Shankweiler was involved in ways that I didn't understand, but like when it came time for me, me to be, to be given 00:07:00orders to report to Northwestern University Medical School, I think Dr. Shankweiler, was, I could thank him for getting that assignment for me and, uh, but, uh, do you want, can I talk to you now?

KR: Anytime, yes. you can. Please do.

RM: Directly

KR: Yes [chuckle].

RM: There were, we mostly stayed on the campus. We, uh, I knew were Dorney Park 00:08:00was is that the name of? Is that still there Dorney Park? And, uh, yeah, I, uh, knew about Cedar Crest College, the girls school down the street and, uh, but like for swimming, we went to the Jewish Center. Is that's still there? They had a swimming pool, so we could do our swimming there. And I tried to act flip-flop, wear two hats, you know, one was the student, a college student, and also the Navy, uh, an enlistee in the Navy. But, um, can I have a little drink of water? I have a dry mouth there, [back ground chatter] [pause]. Would you'd like to steer me to some, some other subject?

KR: You're doing wonderfully well. Thank you so much. I'd like to ask you to think about, um, you've mentioned Dr. Shankweiler.

RM: Yes

KR: Quite, quite a gentleman, quite a scholar who was very helpful. Where there are other faculty or staff people that you remember. Any particular stories, whether it was Dr. Tyson or Haps Benfer or Dr. Horn or any of those people who ring a bell?

RM: [Sigh] I ah. [pause] Do you remember the name of the history professor? That wasn't Doctor Horn, wasn't? No. Well, anyway--

KR: Swain?

RM: I thought he was wonderful. I didn't think I would like history, but I really liked history as taught by him. And, well, there was a I guess he was Dr. Trainer, Dr. Trainer. Almost all of our classes were conducted by him. So, I saw him a lot, more so than Dr. Shankweiler, but uh, I always wondered what they must have felt about teaching all of these military people if it's such a change for them. But, uh, I think all of us did the best we could to, uh, get, get this whole process done. We were wanting to, uh, I'm not sure how to carry that 00:10:00through, but. We had a lot of comradery we were, uh, very, uh--Dutch Schultz was wondering around there, he was a petty officer and we were all very careful to try to please him. But he was the one who would take us out front to do our 00:11:00exercises at six o'clock in the morning. And -- and, uh, we would march to the mess hall for meals. And the march to the chapel, uh-- it was--and--

KR: Remember pulling any little pranks on anyone?

RM: [laugh] Well, we found out what it means to be short sheeted in the bed, you know, uh, it was, you know we would try to go to bed in a hurry at night after taps. But if, if the bed would be short sheeted, we'd have to get up and remake 00:12:00the bed so we could get into the bed. Uh, I'm trying to think of what else, but, uh, we, we were all, I was proud to be one of the group, you know. We were, we were, very much able to, uh, everybody was happy. You would think during the war, you know, it would not be that enjoyable, but we, we all enjoyed our time there. It was, uh, I give credit to the school for understanding or trying to 00:13:00understand us, and-- and, so, maybe another question.

KR: Yes. Tell me about Dr. Tyson, your relationship with Dr. Tyson?

RM: Okay. I, uh, I felt sorry for him because he was a wonderful president for the school, but I don't know how he managed to pull some strings to qualify the school for this officer candidate school and, um, uh, but I think he was very happy that he got that done because I think the school was in trouble, you know, 00:14:00without any students. And, uh, so we took care of that problem for him. But, uh, he, but, we knew who he was, but we were at arm's at arm's length too with the faculty and President Tyson and Haps Benfer and, oh, who are some of those other names?

KR: Mercer, Horn?

RM: That's such a familiar name. But I, uh, I know I did not have any classes with him, so but, uh--

KR: Did you ever meet Reba Tyson, Mrs. Tyson?

RM: No--

KR: No. So, what were the meals like, chow?

RM: Well we would walk through the line to, uh, I was happy with the meals. They were, uh, I guess --

They wanted us to, uh, and I, I, I [pause]. My my, uh, physical training was good there. I, uh, was much better, I was in much better physical condition when I finished there than when I started, uh--

KR: You had to go to the JCC swimming?

RM: Yes.

KR: Obstacle course?

RM: Yes--

KR: Do you remember the underwater?

RM: Yes [laugh]. Well, they would surprise us was with, with some of these things that we needed to do. And, uh, fortunately, I was able to swim. So, can't imagine what the ones did, who did not know how to swim. But, uh, Bill Fritz, I guess you did interview him. Uh, for some reason I talked to Bill Fritz a lot and he, he seemed to know the best things to do on a, on a weekend and he needed somebody to tag along. So, I was the one that tag along and like to Philadelphia 00:15:00on the Liberty Bell. Have you ever heard of that? The Liberty Bell, it's, uh, well we went down the mainline to Philadelphia and with Bill Fritz. So, uh, uh, but I, I was very young, you know, all of us 18 years old. Here I was from Illinois. So, the, uh, eastern people had to try to understand us. Bill Fritz from Oshkosh, Wisconsin, and me from Quincy, Illinois. So, uh, we-- it was all like a big game too, you know, trying to keep our nose clean. We, we didn't want 00:16:00to get into trouble. That was for sure. So--

KR: Schultz will get after you--

RM: Dutch Shultz would find out right away. I know the Marines had a Corporal [Pooja?] that worked for them and he was a real hardened military man. And he was, he was really -- I'm glad we didn't have Corporal Pooja to deal with, but, uh, uh--

Can you think of another question?

KR: Oh, sure. You were--

[technical direction from Tony Dalton]

SUSAN FALCIANI MALDONADO: They came in and they went through the archives and I pulled out old football letter sweaters for them, pendants, copies of the yearbook and things that had different colors. How the team now we refer to it as the Mules. But, of course, the color what it was, the cardinal and grey and in all your books, that's just how the football team was referred to before they became the Mules. Um, so, all little pieces from all of that history, including pieces of like Henry Muhlenberg's signature, and, uh, what shade of red is real true cardinal red for Muhlenberg. So, they've done a lot of research to make some recommendations and really taking the history into consideration a lot. So, he's looking at everything with fresh eyes.

KR: He's also the, one of the first Presidents to, did not come from the 00:17:00educational field.

RM: Well, I am on the mailing list, so I, I read all of that about his -- he's very well qualified. [laugh] And, are we going--

KR: we're going, with the question I was going to ask you was about the co-ed, whether you were in agreement with--

RM: Oh yes--

KR: back then, when you were in school at Muhlenberg, when you were in the Navy, where are you in favor of having women?

RM: Well they didn't ask me and I thought for our purposes it was better that it was all male at the time, but I'm glad that they became co-ed later. Uh, but I'm still thinking that a lot of the V-12 schools might not have been so completely taken over, like Muhlenberg was. I mean, we, we'd we had so few civilian 00:18:00students that, uh, we were very much, uh, very much aware of what we were doing there and why we're there. I'm interested in the ways the school has, uh, fixed up East Hall. I know when I lived there I was in East Hall and even then it was showing age, even back then and now it must be entirely different.

KR: Yes, they did a lot of construction on it. They fixed up the, uh, well they 00:19:00expanded it. They have, uh, fixed all the gutters, so they have new copper outfittings, all the drains and the top, the roof and all that sort of thing. So, it's a lot bigger and it's all been repointed and, you know, it's really pretty now.

SFM: When they were doing the renovation last year, they took off a lot of the wood panels, and what had fallen back behind those panels came to the archives, old postcards, old photograph, cigarette papers, you know, a 100 years' worth of ephemera and things that they would prop it up on the board and it would fall behind. 75 years later now it's in the archives. So that was very, that was pretty, pretty cool.

RM: Uh--

KR: So, I see that you went to Northwestern. You said that Dr. Shankweiler wrote a referral letter for you?

RM: Well, I wasn't aware of it, but I think Dr. Shankweiler was doing a lot that I never was aware of. Like even getting the school qualified for these pre-med students. We, we had this little group of pre-med students, maybe 20, 20 of us. And, uh, I'm wondering if other schools had a group like that. I, I was guessing maybe not, but, uh, I think Dr. Shankweiler was well enough known that he could accomplish things that only he could accomplish.

KR: There've been, it's been said that when Dr. Shankweiler recommended a student, they took it, I mean there was no question asked. I mean, he had such a reputation in the medical schools, so he probably did do some things behind the 00:20:00scenes. And there were some other schools in the V-12 program there were a 130 other schools.

RM: I'm -- I'm and I'm interested to know that

KR: Some of them did have medical schools.

RM: They did?

KR: Absolutely. So, you went to Northwestern?

RM: Yes. For med school? Yes. I was, I was still in the V-12 program when I got active duty orders to report the Northwestern Medical School. And, uh, but then the war ended not too long after that. But, uh, by that time I had started at the medical school where I could continue on there

KR: But they didn't release you, the Navy didn't fully --

RM: Well, I got orders again that I was released to inactive duty. It was about, oh, six months after I had begun the medical school. I was, uh, so I had used the GI Bill after that for a while, and, it was, I should be embarrassed about that too. But I think the Navy really wanted me to complete that after they got started like that. They've wanted me to finish. And also, uh, thank God for the U.S. Navy and Muhlenberg College. [laugh]

KR: So, does anybody have any questions? I don't want to tire anyone out.

SFM: I noticed in one of the photographs you were with a dog campus, you 00:22:00remember a or mascot or dog?

RM: I DO NOT? No. [long pause] No.

KR: Maybe we should show you the photograph? I know you have photograph.

RM: I don't dare use that paper board for this purpose here, [pause] I'll just say no? None that I know. [pause] At one time you said it was there anything that was humorous, you know, along the way? Yes. And I thought that was humorous,

KR: Hilarious! Did you write that or was it Fritz?

RM: Ah, I don't even know who wrote that, it was one of my classmates.

KR: Do you mind reading it

RM: Yes. I'd like to read it.

KR: Thank you. I'd like for you to.

RM: Um, look at this paper board, uh, written in long hand by one of my classmates, uh. "To all conductors, train men, and anyone who sees my plight. I am going to Quincy, Illinois. Put me on the train to Harrisburg. Take me off the Harrisburg train and put me on a train to Chicago. At Chicago, put me on a train to Quincy, Illinois. In Quincy, I live on Jersey Street, across from the high school. The reason for this note is because I am sort of dumb. I'm just a Illinois farmer, actually Iowa." I was not an Illinois farmer, but leave it to them to say I was. "Please help me. My luggage is one brown bag and a white 00:23:00cloth laundry bag, tie them to me." And then they forged my name down at the bottom; Richard E. Meyer, Apprentice Seaman, Muhlenberg College, Allentown, Pennsylvania. So, there you go

KR: So, you made it back to Quincy.

RM: [Laugh]. Well, I thought it was funny and, uh, they, uh, but I was able to stay on good terms with my classmates and, uh, but we did, we were very serious about our classes. We knew that we could not fool around [laugh].

KR: We've asked other people, including Dr. Fritz this one question. And it's not a question that has a right or wrong answer. It's just if you were to address the current student body today or when school opens on August 31st, what is one thing that you, out of all your experiences, you know, in life, what would you say to them as a bit of wisdom? What one thing?

RM: What one thing about the Muhlenberg?

KR: No, no, just about life in general. What advice would you give them? Like when I asked -- I won't answer the question.

RM: Well, here I am 90 years old and looking back, I'm no longer naive like I was when I started into the, the V-12 program, but, uh, going from, let's say leaving high school, there is so much to learn. Even now, I'm still anxious to 00:24:00learn and, uh, there's a reward for doing the best we can. I, I'm so happy that I did really, I tried hard to, uh, to try to qualify for whatever the next step would be, but there are so many steps along the way. So, [clears throat], we have to, uh, expect changes and deal with them as they develop. And, uh, be thankful. Oh, I am so thankful for, uh, just, uh, there's, uh, well-- I am a 00:25:00Christian, but I guess that's not part of it either though, but, uh, oh, one of my things I've learned just recently is the best is yet to come. [laugh] How do you like the sound of that? That the best is yet to come. Here am aged 90, but that struck home with me and I, so -- work hard. I -- I remember one of our 00:26:00staff people here left recently and I was I liked him so well. But the only thing I knew to tell him was, work hard. That's what I told him [laugh].

KR: That's a good piece of advice. Thank you. -- Well, just let me just look at any other things you told us about the flashlight's studying underneath the sheets, and about David -- Tyson?

RM: Yes.

KR: You were friends with him?

RM: Well, I just knew who he was -- and he was -- I hope he was successful. Later on. I'm sure he was.

KR: I believe all his children were the best is yet to come. You have -- that's from your note--

RM: Uh Ha

KR: So, I have here at this note that you have here that, uh -- a couple of things. One of them is you said some people in the officer candidate school wanted to be back in action, especially in the Marines. And some even flunked out to get back into it what you've mentioned, they -- they really wanted to either get in it, even though I know Dr. Tyson tried to encourage people to stay in school, he found that some people actually wanted to leave.

RM: Well, not too many. We I think most of them were [pause] weren't there very long, which accounts for like in the publications from the school, uh, there's a big gap in there. Like we're -- I guess -- I still regard myself as a class of V 00:27:0045. We call it V 45, but that would be V-12 of 1945. But, uh, you probably lost track of all those other people. Now you say you did not lose track of them, so I'm glad to hear that.

SFM: We have records. The alumni office does have track of them. I've seen those designations. Some would you say class of Class of '43, Class of '44 on the letters as they came in and it would say maybe V45, V44. So, they did keep track, yes. If there's anyone in particular you ever wanted to know about, let me know and I would try to find out

RM: Yes. Yes. -- After we finish here, I'll give you one name in particular.

KR: [inaudible]. We'll share. [inaudible]

SFM: [Hands a Dr. Meyer a picture] Is this your roommate huh?

RM: Well, Well, yes, they, uh, we were supposed, supposed to have trouble with the Marines and of course Marines had trouble with us, for sure. But, uh, uh, I've heard stories about aboard ship where they -- I think they have really enjoyed fight, getting into fights. It was, I don't understand why they would want to do that, but I never did that [laugh].

SFM: That wasn't where your plan--

RM: No.

KR: OK. Thank you very much.

END OF AUDIO