Janice Williams, August 27, 2021

Janice Williams, August 27, 2021

African American college students

Janice Williams, Class of 1970, attended Muhlenberg as an adult student and upon graduation took a position in the Admissions Office of the College. She speaks of her experiences working in that office and efforts to recruit and retain minority students.

2021-08-27

video

MCA_08

Susan Falciani Maldonado

Kate Ranieri

Janice Williams

00:48:17

5.4 August 27, 2021 Janice Williams, August 27, 2021 MCA_08 00:48:17 MCA-D History of Diversity and Inclusion at Muhlenberg College Muhlenberg College: Trexler Library Oral History Repository African American college students Janice Williams Susan Falciani Maldonado Kate Ranieri video/mov WilliamsJanice_20210827_edited.mov 1:|15(5)|28(10)|53(3)|70(12)|80(5)|87(4)|92(14)|100(6)|108(3)|115(14)|128(1)|140(4)|149(2)|156(8)|169(2)|175(1)|181(16)|190(12)|196(1)|202(12)|215(4)|225(3)|230(13)|235(13)|243(4)|258(2)|266(5)|271(5)|278(6)|287(6)|292(5)|298(13)|305(8)|311(1)|318(4)|323(7)|331(2)|335(11)|342(8)|350(5)|360(4)|365(10)|371(11)|385(11)|399(3)|408(11)|423(7)|434(2) 0 https://youtu.be/UIpZq4C_zYg YouTube video English 0 Introductions So my name is Susan Falciani Maldonado, and I am here this morning with Janice Williams to talk about her experiences at Muhlenberg College. Our goal is to collect oral histories of people's unique experiences during their years as a student and in this case as a member of staff to preserve the information for future generations to access. The oral histories are an integral part of our project, &quot ; The History of Diversity and Inclusion at Muhlenberg College.&quot ; 272 Early Life All right, I was born in Allentown, in 1938. And I attended Allentown schools, grade school, junior high and high school, graduating from Allentown High School in 1956. In 1956, I applied to Virginia's State College in Petersburg, Virginia ; that is an all black school in the state of Virginia. I had an uncle who was a professor on campus teaching French. And I spent one year there. 359 Early Muhlenberg Experiences However, the very next year, 1956, -57,-58, the college decided to accept women as full time students, so I transferred to Muhlenberg, for my sophomore year in 1957, and the year 1957-58. That was a very good year. However, it was an expensive time for me to go full time for my family, and so I did not return after the sophomore year, instead worked at several jobs and the most important of which was Western Electric here in Allentown. In the meantime, I got married and had two children. 579 Memories of EOP Students d I interviewed for this job and was accepted by the college. Let's see-- SFM: I just want to break in here, it's-- we are listening avidly, we try not to add the little things like saying 'a-ha' or 'yes' or 'tell me more', because we want to preserve the integrity, but I just want you to know we're still here, definitely. And you are a wonderful narrator. So we appreciate that. JW: Well, I appreciate your saying that. I'm feeling that I have too many 'uh's' and silences. But anyway, if you have a question at this point, I certainly would be willing to answer it. 1022 Working in Admissions FM: Thank you for that. So if we shift gears to talking about your time working in admissions: so you said that was an entry level position, do you remember who basically was your boss at that point and what were your responsibilities in that role? JW: My boss and very good friend from the time he was my boss throughout the rest of my life was George Gibbs. G-I-B-B-S, Gibbs. George was an excellent director of admissions, and there was two other men on the staff who had more experience and years in the position than I did. But who accepted me fully and I enjoyed every minute that I worked there. 1283 Diversity Recruitment Recollections hat were efforts at diversity recruitment at the time that you were working in the admissions office? Was there a particular mission in this area or a mandate or particular challenges around recruiting students of color to come to Muhlenberg? JW: Well, in the admissions office, we went to great pains to identify minority applicants. I personally reviewed almost every application that came into our office where I might be able to identify that the applicant was a minority student. 1594 Support for Minority Students JW: Well, in terms of support systems on campus, this was a very early time during that period of colleges across the United States taking a very serious, serious action as far as recruiting and attempting to increase the number of minority students on their campuses. So, there was no established systems in place for minority students, I mean, you did the best you could in terms of-- all of us, as administrators were assigned certain students to-- you kind of be a mentor to and to do follow ups as far as contacting them on some fairly regular basis as to how they were doing with their studies and in other ways, and if they had problems, we would try to do what we could to assist them with advice as to how to deal with the problem, especially from an academic point of view ; there were tutors available and there --and all the professors, of course, would help all of the students. And I constantly reminded students that the professors were available to assist them with their studies. 1759 Working with George Gibbs JW: Well, I think I said this earlier that my experience at Muhlenberg was actually the most wonderful time. One of the most wonderful periods of my life. I enjoyed being a student there, but as an older student, I'm sure that was because of my age and I knew how important education was going to be in the rest of my life. So I love the classes and the professors, but working in the office with George and the other guys was outstanding, I mean, it was just the greatest. We were friends. 1862 Working at PP &amp ; L I loved every minute of it and when I left Muhlenberg, it was because I simply had to earn more money in order to take care of my children, and I intended for them both to go to college and knew that it was going to be a big expense on my part to take care of them. So while I was working in admissions for four years, I attended and took classes at Lehigh University for a master's degree and obtained a degree in 1974, and it was in higher administration. And in my thinking at that time was that I would just apply for a higher level position in the college. 2188 Advice for Students SFM: Thank you for sharing that. One of the questions that we like to ask folks that we're able to talk to is: &quot ; If you had any words of advice for students of color today attending college, what would those be?&quot ; JW: Well, I have talked to many individuals about their interest in going to college. I had to consider the whole person and their life experience, and their school experience. And taking into consideration the entire information that I had about the individual, I would counsel them, or talk to them about, or advise them as to my opinion on how they should proceed. 2395 Recommendations for Muhlenberg KR: I wouldn't mind hearing what your thoughts are about how you see Muhlenberg, going forward, what are your thoughts about perhaps things we could do better? And I realize this is just speculation, but just based on your own expertise. JW: I assume that you mean better at Muhlenberg? KR: Yes, that's what I meant, sorry. JW: Well, I haven't been really on campus or that close to what's going on for many, many years. As you know, with the fact that I was born in '38, I just had my 83rd birthday. But I do receive the alumni information, I read the paper, and I read the alumni book that's published I guess, twice a year or something, I read that from front to back and I see many of the things that the college is doing and I think that their efforts are very good. 2693 Closing Comments Thank you. KR: Thank you. SFM: Thank you so much for your time. You have been a wonderful interview subject, so thank you very much. And as I mentioned earlier, we will prepare this transcript in this video in the coming weeks. And I will email them over to you and you'll have the opportunity to read through it and then kind of grant your final OK to it. But I hope that you have a lovely weekend and if you have any questions at all, you have my contact information. MovingImage Janice Williams, Class of 1970, attended Muhlenberg as an adult student and upon graduation took a position in the Admissions Office of the College. She speaks of her experiences working in that office and efforts to recruit and retain minority students. Janice WilliamsAugust 27, 2021 SUSAN FALCIANI MALDONADO: My name is Susan Falciani Maldonado, and I am here this morning with Janice Williams to talk about her experiences at Muhlenberg College. Our goal is to collect oral histories of people&#039 ; s unique experiences during their years as a student and in this case as a member of staff to preserve the information for future generations to access. The oral histories are an integral part of our project, &quot ; The History of Diversity and Inclusion at Muhlenberg College.&quot ; We are meeting over the phone today on Friday, August 27th, 2021. Janice, I&#039 ; d like to thank you so much for your willingness to speak with us today. To begin, can you please state your full name and spell it for me? JANICE WILLIAMS: Janice L.-- well, actually, I&#039 ; ll use Merritt, that&#039 ; s my maiden name. Janice Merritt Williams, J-A-N-I-C-E, Merritt is M-E-R-R-I-T-T, Williams W-I-L-L-I-A-M-S SFM: Thank you. And can you share the year that you graduated from Muhlenberg college? JW: The year was 1970. SFM: Excellent. This interview is expected to involve no more than minimal risk of answering questions about the past, you may become bored, tired or frustrated during the interview. Some of the questions could make you uncomfortable, in recounting the past there may be risk of emotional impact. There is no obligation to answer any question. If, after participating in this interview, you have experienced any mental health anguish or other concerns, please contact your personal medical expert, or you may contact the National Alliance on Mental Health, a free and confidential resource. And the contact information for that organization is in the document that we sent. We would like to ask that you be mindful-- you may feel free to use the names of individuals that you remember from the past, just be aware that in case anything particularly negative or potentially libelous is said, we may redact the name of the person that you speak of. Have you read the consent that was emailed to you? JW: Yes, I have. SFM: Do you consent to this interview today? JW: I do. SFM: Do you consent to having this interview transcribed, digitized and made publicly available online in searchable formats? JW: Yes. SFM: Do you consent to having this interview be stored in the archives of Muhlenberg College? JW: Yes. SFM: Do you consent to Muhlenberg College and researchers using your interview for educational purposes in other formats, including films, articles, websites, presentations and other formats? JW: Yes. SFM: Do you understand that you are not receiving any monetary compensation for your time today and you are not required to participate by Muhlenberg College? JW: Yes. SFM: And then the one last thing that I will add here is the fact that, according to our procedure, what will happen is we will-- at the end of this recording today, we will over the coming weeks transcribe into text the transcript of this, and I will email you a link to the recording and to the transcript that you can read through, and you have 30 days to decide if you are willing to have it be shared and if there are any parts of it you might like to cut out. So you&#039 ; ll receive that. We try to have our turnaround time be speedy, but in reality, it will probably be a few weeks. So if that is-- I apologize, I live on a busy road, so I will be muting myself-- we both will be muting ourselves when you answer, so we&#039 ; ll just be capturing your audio. So I think with that, we&#039 ; re pretty much ready to get started. Can you talk to us about your childhood and early life? So, where you grew up, your family, and then what prompted you to explore going to college? JW: All right, I was born in Allentown, in 1938. And I attended Allentown schools, grade school, junior high and high school, graduating from Allentown High School in 1956. In 1956, I applied to Virginia&#039 ; s State College in Petersburg, Virginia ; that is an all black school in the state of Virginia. I had an uncle who was a professor on campus teaching French. And I spent one year there. After that period of time, I found that I was not a good person for dormitory living. I wanted to come back home and have my own room and be with my family. And at that point that I applied to Virginia State, Muhlenberg was not accepting women on campus. However, the very next year, 1956, -57,-58, the college decided to accept women as full time students, so I transferred to Muhlenberg, for my sophomore year in 1957, and the year 1957-58. That was a very good year. However, it was an expensive time for me to go full time for my family, and so I did not return after the sophomore year, instead worked at several jobs and the most important of which was Western Electric here in Allentown. In the meantime, I got married and had two children. One daughter and one son. In 19-- I don&#039 ; t know what time. I&#039 ; m going to say that after-- well, in my 30th year, when I had a birthday and when I was 30, I decided that I was not living the life I wanted to live. And so I returned to college full time. I applied to Muhlenberg. They accepted me and granted me a full-time tuition scholarship. So I was-- became at that point a full-time student, single parent with two children and a part-time job on weekends. I spent my junior and senior years full time at Muhlenberg, graduating in the December ceremony in 1970 as a psychology major. My intent at that point was to become a high school guidance counselor, if I could, in the Allentown school district. So upon graduation from Muhlenberg, I got a position in the school district as a guidance counselor. They could not accept me in that position because there was a state requirement that you must teach a certain number of years in the classroom before becoming a guidance counselor. However, they offered me a job as a reading specialist in the district. In the meantime, I had also applied at Muhlenberg for a position in the admissions office. It was an entry level position. And I interviewed for this job and was accepted by the college. Let&#039 ; s see-- SFM: I just want to break in here, it&#039 ; s-- we are listening avidly, we try not to add the little things like saying &#039 ; a-ha&#039 ; or &#039 ; yes&#039 ; or &#039 ; tell me more&#039 ; , because we want to preserve the integrity, but I just want you to know we&#039 ; re still here, definitely. And you are a wonderful narrator. So we appreciate that. JW: Well, I appreciate your saying that. I&#039 ; m feeling that I have too many &#039 ; uh&#039 ; s&#039 ; and silences. But anyway, if you have a question at this point, I certainly would be willing to answer it. SFM: To clarify, so I assume that you were-- you obviously-- I realized I don&#039 ; t even need to ask the question, you were a commuter at this point when you were a student, of course, because you had a family and you were staying at home, so that the dormitory experience when you were 30 is not something that you were experiencing. Can I ask at the time that you were a student, were you aware of a program that was known as the Educational Opportunities Program, which was an outreach program to bring in black students from some of the cities and enroll them at Muhlenberg? JW: Yes, I was aware of this program when I was a full time student in my junior and senior years at the college, and had the opportunity to meet and communicate-- speak with a number of these students ; they were very interesting. A large number of them were from New York City. And so I knew them and became acquainted with them. I would like to mention that another student who was very similar-- had a very similar experience as mine. Her name is Barbara Taliaferro, who was also born and raised in Allentown, married and had children. And both of us were full-time students during those years that I was a full-time student. SFM: Thank you, I have come across her name in the records, and she is someone else, I think, that we would like to to follow up with. So I suppose before-- I&#039 ; d like to hear more about your time in the admissions office, but before that, I guess, you spoke about awareness of the students who were in the EOP, were you aware of or participated in any activism that might have been taking place at that time? I know that-- well, I know of some things, but I was just curious to hear your responses to that. JW: At that time, of course, I was a full-time student carrying five courses every semester and as a single parent had with two children to care for and trying to work a part time job to help with our living expenses, I really didn&#039 ; t spend any more time on campus talking with the EOP students other than lunchtime or between classes, but even then between classes I studied, and of course, so I spent most of my free time on campus studying. I had to be a very serious student because I had two years to do my work, and take care of other things off campus, and I really did not, could not, socialize with the students, other than the time period of time that I&#039 ; ve just mentioned to you. SFM: Thank you. JW: Now this was as a student. SFM: Were there any faculty members that you had who were particularly memorable to you in any way? JW: Well, during my student years, I assume you&#039 ; re referring to the student years now, I, of course, as an older student, was friendlier with some of the faculty members than perhaps the younger students would have been, simply because of my age and life experience. I had some excellent professors at Muhlenberg. One was a sociology major-- sociology professor. A woman. And I particularly remember a religion professor, a man. An English professor, I mean, really, all of my professors were very good. I had somewhat of a problem with professors in the economics department, mainly because it was-- they were from another culture, and it was difficult for me to understand them with these theories that I also had a problem--struggling with the economics in the course. But what I did was obtain a student tutor. They helped me and with the tutor&#039 ; s help I was able to have a positive experience there. SFM: Thank you for that. So if we shift gears to talking about your time working in admissions: so you said that was an entry level position, do you remember who basically was your boss at that point and what were your responsibilities in that role? JW: My boss and very good friend from the time he was my boss throughout the rest of my life was George Gibbs. G-I-B-B-S, Gibbs. George was an excellent director of admissions, and there was two other men on the staff who had more experience and years in the position than I did. But who accepted me fully and I enjoyed every minute that I worked there. The position required that I recruit students, traveling to high schools in the other states, principally New Jersey and New York, to high schools to hold seminars about the college, to inform students what we had to offer, and I enjoyed the traveling very much. I enjoyed meeting all the students. So I also interviewed students who visited the campus for individual appointments. And then, as the process moved on in admissions, I reviewed applications from students and assisted in the decisions to accept or reject the applicants. It was a wonderful job. Best job I ever had. SFM: That&#039 ; s wonderful. We have heard very positive things about Mr. Gibbs from students who remember him as the face of their recruiting efforts and as a door they could always go knock on for assistance. I universally have heard wonderful things about him and and we have good quotes from him, articles from the Muhlenberg Weekly, and other statements in terms of his efforts towards increasing diversity at the college and being honest about what the challenges were around that. Of course, one of the things I think I mentioned to you in an email is Harold Hillman, who is a class of &#039 ; 77, is very eager-- I don&#039 ; t know whether he might have looked you up and sent you a letter or not, but one of the things I wanted to ask if you would be comfortable with me sharing your email address with him, because he reflected so excitedly about having met you, I believe, in Washington D.C. and sitting down and stopping at Muhlenberg&#039 ; s table and having a conversation with you, and he considers that conversation transformative in his life. And he would love to drop you a line at some point. Which is part of the reason we&#039 ; re so excited to have the opportunity to talk to you as well. I would ask, are you aware-- what were efforts at diversity recruitment at the time that you were working in the admissions office? Was there a particular mission in this area or a mandate or particular challenges around recruiting students of color to come to Muhlenberg? JW: Well, in the admissions office, we went to great pains to identify minority applicants. I personally reviewed almost every application that came into our office where I might be able to identify that the applicant was a minority student. So these applications were set aside and they were reviewed in a separate-- I&#039 ; m trying to be careful how I say this, because-- I mean, we were meeting-- there were many different kinds of rules, laws at that time, but still we wanted to make sure that all the students were given a fair appraisal of their academic achievement, in the admissions process. However, we set the the applications aside that we thought were minority students and I personally looked, read every one of them, and then I put them in a grouping which consisted of, you know, the most acceptable to the least acceptable, keeping in mind that Muhlenberg is a very, very rigorous College in its curriculum and it would not be fair to accept a student who would, in my opinion, not be able to be successful at Muhlenberg. So, that was the process that was used. I then presented the most qualified, I&#039 ; d say top half of that group to our committee--the committee was really our admissions staff--we held weekly meetings to consider all students. And so, that process was not the only part of my job, I also had a group of all students, of other students, to review and to present to the committee. I took a special interest in looking at the minority students, trying to find as many qualified students as I could. SFM: Thank you. I have a follow up question to that, I would just like to share that our colleague Kate has been able to join the call, so if she would like to introduce herself briefly here. KATE RANIERI: I am so sorry, but it is such a delight to be able to be part of this conversation, thank you very much, and I&#039 ; ll let Susan continue. JW: Well, it&#039 ; s nice-- nice to meet Kate, through this conversation. KR: Thank you. SFM: So my follow up question would be, did you-- once you were in a position as part of the administration and minority students had been invited to join the college, do you feel that there was a support system in place for them? And if not, was that a concern of how they would-- they would thrive or find community once they joined the college? JW: Well, in terms of support systems on campus, this was a very early time during that period of colleges across the United States taking a very serious, serious action as far as recruiting and attempting to increase the number of minority students on their campuses. So, there was no established systems in place for minority students, I mean, you did the best you could in terms of-- all of us, as administrators were assigned certain students to-- you kind of be a mentor to and to do follow ups as far as contacting them on some fairly regular basis as to how they were doing with their studies and in other ways, and if they had problems, we would try to do what we could to assist them with advice as to how to deal with the problem, especially from an academic point of view ; there were tutors available and there --and all the professors, of course, would help all of the students. And I constantly reminded students that the professors were available to assist them with their studies. SFM: Thank you. Is there anything else about your time working in the admissions office --and I&#039 ; m curious to know, if not, then how long you did stay there and then what you moved on to afterwards?-- But is there anything else about that period that you would like to share with us? JW: Well, I think I said this earlier that my experience at Muhlenberg was actually the most wonderful time. One of the most wonderful periods of my life. I enjoyed being a student there, but as an older student, I&#039 ; m sure that was because of my age and I knew how important education was going to be in the rest of my life. So I love the classes and the professors, but working in the office with George and the other guys was outstanding, I mean, it was just the greatest. We were friends. As colleagues in working and also outside of the position, we also socialized from time to time with lunches together and other events, athletic events such as football games or basketball games or whatever I could take the children to, and it was just marvelous. I loved every minute of it and when I left Muhlenberg, it was because I simply had to earn more money in order to take care of my children, and I intended for them both to go to college and knew that it was going to be a big expense on my part to take care of them. So while I was working in admissions for four years, I attended and took classes at Lehigh University for a master&#039 ; s degree and obtained a degree in 1974, and it was in higher administration. And in my thinking at that time was that I would just apply for a higher level position in the college. Well, there wasn&#039 ; t anything available that I wanted to apply for at Muhlenberg, and I wasn&#039 ; t ready to move to another campus in another location, so I had to look elsewhere. I went to the placement office at Lehigh, talked to the director there, and within a short period of time I was contacted by Pennsylvania Power and Light Company to interview for a position that they had as a college administrator on their staff. Now, as a company at that time, they had something like 8,000+ employees and the company offered assistance to the employees with assistance in their education, further education, and as long as it was related to any job that was in the company, and so they offered this education assistance program, tuition refund-- if a student-- if an employee took a course, and passed it with a B or better, and it was related to a position somewhere in the company, they would refund the tuition amount to the employee. So at that point, there may have been, perhaps of five or six hundred employees who were enrolled in either community college or four year institutions taking courses and so I would review-- was a process similar to one that I had in admissions. I talked to the employees, advised them with some counseling as far as colleges and courses, review their applications for tuition refund, approved them, and do a follow up in terms of reviewing their transcripts as they continue their education and then at times advising them on other positions that they would want to apply to within the company as they finish their quest for more education. So you have there somewhat of my history. I retired from PPL in 1995, after 20 years, and the position that I was in at the time of retirement was manager of employment. So, I enjoyed PPL also, however, the Muhlenberg position will always remain as the best job I ever had. SFM: Thank you for sharing that. One of the questions that we like to ask folks that we&#039 ; re able to talk to is: &quot ; If you had any words of advice for students of color today attending college, what would those be?&quot ; JW: Well, I have talked to many individuals about their interest in going to college. I had to consider the whole person and their life experience, and their school experience. And taking into consideration the entire information that I had about the individual, I would counsel them, or talk to them about, or advise them as to my opinion on how they should proceed. Usually, if it was an older person returning to school after many years away from their studies, I would suggest that they start with the community college, and as they as they did well there, they could consider four-year school, whether-- and we could discuss whether they could consider full time or whether it should be part time evening courses, and we also thought seriously about what the majors should be because there were many majors that are simply not going to be able to provide jobs where they could take care of themselves, first and their families, second. And then there, on the other hand, there are majors that will provide enough for them to cover-- to have a very successful career in life, take care of their families. But we always discussed how stressful the experience can be and how they had to make a total commitment to moving forward to get a better education. SFM: Thank you. Does anyone else have questions for Janice? KR: I wouldn&#039 ; t mind hearing what your thoughts are about how you see Muhlenberg, going forward, what are your thoughts about perhaps things we could do better? And I realize this is just speculation, but just based on your own expertise. JW: I assume that you mean better at Muhlenberg? KR: Yes, that&#039 ; s what I meant, sorry. JW: Well, I haven&#039 ; t been really on campus or that close to what&#039 ; s going on for many, many years. As you know, with the fact that I was born in &#039 ; 38, I just had my 83rd birthday. But I do receive the alumni information, I read the paper, and I read the alumni book that&#039 ; s published I guess, twice a year or something, I read that from front to back and I see many of the things that the college is doing and I think that their efforts are very good. But I always have to remember that the most important thing is that you have to accept these students who the college thinks really has an opportunity to graduate from the institution. You can&#039 ; t just take someone who may have a, you know-- wants to do well and whatever, but academically doesn&#039 ; t have a solid enough background to be able to handle courses at Muhlenberg. And Muhlenberg isn&#039 ; t the only one in this position, I mean, all of the colleges are having the same problems. We try to accept all these students that there are many things that are working against the successful college experience, and it&#039 ; s just a difficult, difficult area, and job. KR: It is because-- thank you-- the system and the kind of provisions that are in place, the sort of structures that are in place to support students sometimes seems like it&#039 ; s just not quite enough, it&#039 ; s almost like trying to hold on to mercury. You know, it&#039 ; s when things happen with students that you&#039 ; re just like, &quot ; how did that slip through?&quot ; You know, sort of. But I appreciate your perspective. It is, there&#039 ; s lots of complexities that especially students that are coming from so many different backgrounds, regardless of whether it&#039 ; s economic or religious or race or gender or whatever, there&#039 ; s geographical differences, so there&#039 ; s going to be some bumps in the road. But I&#039 ; m happy to hear that you&#039 ; re following everything, at least you know, the magazines that come out about what&#039 ; s happening. That&#039 ; s great. Thank you. JW: You&#039 ; re welcome. SFM: Do you have any questions for us? JW: No, I really don&#039 ; t have any questions. I appreciate the fact that you&#039 ; re doing this work. I think that it&#039 ; s a good thing, and I think it&#039 ; s important for current and future students, all students, not just minority students, I just think it&#039 ; s important that we have the history in the college archives and that others will have the opportunity to hear about those who came before them. Thank you. KR: Thank you. SFM: Thank you so much for your time. You have been a wonderful interview subject, so thank you very much. And as I mentioned earlier, we will prepare this transcript in this video in the coming weeks. And I will email them over to you and you&#039 ; ll have the opportunity to read through it and then kind of grant your final OK to it. But I hope that you have a lovely weekend and if you have any questions at all, you have my contact information. JW: Well, I thank you so much for including me in this project, and I hope you have wonderful success, which I know you will have, be successful in doing your work and feel free to contact me at any time if you need any further information. I&#039 ; ll be happy to help you. KR: Thank you. JW: I&#039 ; m sorry that we could not meet face to face and sometime, if you would like to meet face to face or whatever, I hang out once in a while with my son and his friends at The Hamilton, which is right here in Center City, Allentown, and close to my home. KR: Wonderful! SFM: It would be an honor some time! JW: It&#039 ; s a Friday evening, happy hour time, and the club members--these are his friends. Now, these friends of his are in their early 60s, he will be 60, nearing their early 60s. It&#039 ; s just-- I enjoy hanging out with young people. Now, I have my daughter. She lives in Philadelphia, but she hangs out with us once in a while, she comes up and meets with us. She is sixty-three. And I can&#039 ; t believe that I have these children that are this age, oh, and by the way, they did both graduate from Penn State. KR: Excellent. JW: I couldn&#039 ; t have them go to Muhlenberg because I always told them that I didn&#039 ; t want my friends from Muhlenberg calling to tell me they were misbehaving on campus. KR: Funny. JW: Yeah, yeah, so. I thank you again. KR: Thank you, thank you very much. Copyright remains with the interview subject and their heirs. video The interviews collected as part of the project &quot ; The History of Diversity and Inclusion at Muhlenberg College&quot ; are hereby shared with the consent of the participants under Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 4.0 International License (CC BY-NC 4.0). Under this license, the interviewees have agreed for the interviews to be publicly available in the Trexler Library archives and as a freely available resource on the internet for educators, scholars, students, and others who wish to explore the many stories about Muhlenberg College’s path toward diversity and inclusion. 0